6 month old AD frrp left me on side of road today... hot cows in trailer

[rancherman]

Got the cows unloaded before they got too hot.. I been hauling short trips to pasture all day, and this last load I got up on the road, and it was bucking all over the place.... clouds of blue/gray smoke. I shut it down and bumped the starter. No lift pump. I opened up the drain ____, and get a good stream only while the starter is engaged.. no 30 second run-on. The air dog was extremely hot. After half hour of open hood cool down, it started to pump again. Engine ran perfect (no smoke and easily rapped up to 3500 ) then about 30 seconds later, the pump shut down again. Mike, if that ecm is junk... it won't give me momentary on-off like this will it?

- - - Updated - - -

Really???? "Drain-Kock" gets 'Bleeped'???

[Matt0matic]

Sounds like you are having a good day, hope things start getting better for you.

[diesel4life]

I wonder why the pump would be so hot? Possibly a restriction on the inlet side plugging the pump up? There is a small screen on the suction side...That's a real bummer, I just cashed in on my 11 month old pump as well... started leaking fuel internally and seeping through the rubber grommet around the harness.

[dripley]

No 30 second run would point to the ecm, but the pump being that hot would point to the pump. AD has been having some pump problems of late.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok. We've talked on the phone. Now so other are clear its a AirDog FRRP. So he's direct connected to the ECM as well as using stock plumbing. As for the ECm it would be direct control of the fuel pump and it would be smart to add the relay to take the stress off the ECM. If the rotor is binding up it might be pulling extra amps on the ECM. You might check for the P0230 error code.

[dripley]

yes getting the pump off of the ECM would be beneficial. Would the pump overheat because of the ECM? Or would the ECM overheat because of the pump draw and stop the 25 to 30 second free run you get from bumping the starter?

[rancherman]

Good thing I never throw anything away! I put the stock pump back on, and so far so good. A little bird tells me I need my butt kicked for never installing a FP gauge.. The 'old' Carter sounds much healthier than the 'new' AD. I wish I could've amp'd it while it was still installed, and hot... speaking of hot, I couldn't tell you if it was just hot from it's proximity to the block, (and soaked heat while it was shut off for 15 minutes) or if it was drawing that many amps to make heat. I have about the same number of loads tomorrow, and it's supposed to be pretty warm again.

- - - Updated - - -

yes getting the pump off of the ECM would be beneficial. Would the pump overheat because of the ECM? Or would the ECM overheat because of the pump draw and stop the 25 to 30 second free run you get from bumping the starter?

If I understand Mike correctly, there is a separate circuit (keyed) for that initial 'run pump while cranking' much like the old gm's that had a bypass 12 volt-to-distributor to ensure the coil had the full 12 volts while the starter was engaged. Now, If my pump is/was dragging, there may have not been enough amps (ecm supplied) to run it, but the 'keyed' circuit may have been enough to power it up. It only ran while the starter was engaged.

[dripley]

What I understand and experience on my truck is a 25 second run just bumping the starter and not continually cranking. If I hold the key and turn the starter I only see about half pressure while cranking. The ecm cycles the lift pump on and off creating about 50% pressure for starting.

[diesel4life]

Ok. We've talked on the phone. Now so other are clear its a AirDog FRRP. So he's direct connected to the ECM as well as using stock plumbing. As for the ECm it would be direct control of the fuel pump and it would be smart to add the relay to take the stress off the ECM. If the rotor is binding up it might be pulling extra amps on the ECM. You might check for the P0230 error code.

This brings up a concern for me being I just re routed my pump to the rear of my truck. Looking at install instructions for the AD100, I noticed a separate harness for a 12 volt source as well as a relay along with a harness to extend the factory ecm harness back to the pump. The instructions I found on the net were very vague, but I assumed the 12. Volt supply and relay were for the pressure sender that's on the pump. Is this not correct? Sorry for the derail rancherman

[dripley]

This brings up a concern for me being I just re routed my pump to the rear of my truck. Looking at install instructions for the AD100, I noticed a separate harness for a 12 volt source as well as a relay along with a harness to extend the factory ecm harness back to the pump. The instructions I found on the net were very vague, but I assumed the 12. Volt supply and relay were for the pressure sender that's on the pump. Is this not correct? Sorry for the derail rancherman

if it is like the one that came with my AD, it only uses the factory ecm signal for a trigger of the relay. My 12v power comes from the alternator

[diesel4life]

Thanks DRipley, that explains the differences. The FRRP is designed to bolt directly in place of the oem lift pump and gets its power through the factory harness, no additional power leads/ relays.

[rancherman]

well, mission accomplished. All the cows are delivered. Truck ran flawlessly pulling over 20k for 150 miles this morning, using the old carter oem FP. I do have a brand new AD100 in the box, I never installed it because (it's really tight between the transfer case and fuel tank) and a regular cab. But, that pump is new enough that it's probably one of the 'poorer/cheapened-up models'. I wonder if I should sell it, and go with another brand? I don't plan on keeping the old carter installed very long!

[Texas CTD]

well, mission accomplished. All the cows are delivered. Truck ran flawlessly pulling over 20k for 150 miles this morning, using the old carter oem FP. I do have a brand new AD100 in the box, I never installed it because (it's really tight between the transfer case and fuel tank) and a regular cab. But, that pump is new enough that it's probably one of the 'poorer/cheapened-up models'. I wonder if I should sell it, and go with another brand? I don't plan on keeping the old carter installed very long!

I would sell it. Get a FASS or a Fuel Boss.

[Mopar1973Man]

Most people are swapping out to FASS or mechanical belt driven pumps. Me, personally would consider the FASS before the mechanical pumps. This kind of the 1st generation of mechanical pumps and might have a revision some time soon and improve the design and minor flaws. Kind of like when I bought my AirDog I bought during the 2nd generation phase of the pump and got a rock solid pump. Something to chew on.

[diesel4life]

well, mission accomplished. All the cows are delivered. Truck ran flawlessly pulling over 20k for 150 miles this morning, using the old carter oem FP. I do have a brand new AD100 in the box, I never installed it because (it's really tight between the transfer case and fuel tank) and a regular cab. But, that pump is new enough that it's probably one of the 'poorer/cheapened-up models'. I wonder if I should sell it, and go with another brand? I don't plan on keeping the old carter installed very long!

Ever consider mounting on the outside of the frame rail? The one major downfall I could see from that is the potential to catch a lot more chit from the front tire, but you could build a simple guard to protect the pump and keep the debris off of it. Mine fit OK on the inside of the rail (quad cab) but I am still going to build a nice protective guard for it out of some stainless plate I've got laying around just to help keep the mud and salt off of it. Personally, if it were my pump and it was just sitting on the shelf, I'd probably install it. You have extra motor laying around (FRRP) in case it goes bad. Between a brand new 100 and the new Raptor your about to acquire on warranty, you should be good to go for a long tim For parts. (See my thread on the raptor conversion). The flip side is to sell it (lose money) then buy something else (spend more money) :banghead:

[dripley]

My AD has been rock solid since install. If I had issues that stuck me on the road and caused me to have to replace the pump every 3 to 4 months, even under warranty, I'd take it off and put something else on. I dont have time for the BS of that. I dont think I could buy another AD until they get their problems worked out. I am with Mike on the mechanical pumps. I want to see how they hold up in the long run. For now I will just be happy that my AD is holding up well.

[Mopar1973Man]

Hence why my placement of my pump.Well guarded from road debris and away from the heat of the engine bay...

[rancherman]

Ever consider mounting on the outside of the frame rail? The one major downfall I could see from that is the potential to catch a lot more chit from the front tire, but you could build a simple guard to protect the pump and keep the debris off of it. Mine fit OK on the inside of the rail (quad cab) but I am still going to build a nice protective guard for it out of some stainless plate I've got laying around just to help keep the mud and salt off of it.

Personally, if it were my pump and it was just sitting on the shelf, I'd probably install it. You have extra motor laying around (FRRP) in case it goes bad. Between a brand new 100 and the new Raptor your about to acquire on warranty, you should be good to go for a long tim For parts. (See my thread on the raptor conversion). The flip side is to sell it (lose money) then buy something else (spend more money) :banghead:

decisions, decisions! Does anyone have info on these 'bad' AD's: different color, serial #'s affected.. etc? Or Do I just install the dumb thing and wait for it to fail, and hope the warrantied replacement is of the newer/better design? ( I hear/read AD fixed the problem )

- - - Updated - - -

Hence why my placement of my pump.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5790[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5791[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5792[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5793[/ATTACH]

Well guarded from road debris and away from the heat of the engine bay...

Lets see what a regular cab, with NV5600 has for clearance, shall we?? 5600's are about 6 inches longer than 4500's.

so, with the approximately 5 inch gap between the tank and the transfer case, I'm pretty much screwed for mounting the fp100 there. Next best place I can see is the outside of the frame rail, right beside the tank. It is higher there, BUT, the plastic mounting plates are too short for that section of frame rail. I'll have to move forward to the narrower part (and lower to ground) right under cab. I could make some new mounting plates which would let me use the higher section. Either way, a splash/rock box for protection will be needed. I am open for any other suggestions too: Please, I've got no room in the glove box!

[diesel4life]

Man that's tough, Without ever being under a regular cab the outside is really the only place I can think of. Unless you don't carry a spare tire, then you could possibly fab some brackets and mount it back there someplace. It would be up high and out of harms way, may be plausible if it's a farm truck but if you take it out on the road it's kind of tough to deal without a spare. Another option I've seen people use that seem to be pretty reliable are the Walbro pumps. No extra filtration which is a negative for me but they are much smaller, which would benefit you, and the 2 people I know that run them have no complaints with them.

[rancherman]

Man that's tough, Without ever being under a regular cab the outside is really the only place I can think of. Unless you don't carry a spare tire, then you could possibly fab some brackets and mount it back there someplace. It would be up high and out of harms way, may be plausible if it's a farm truck but if you take it out on the road it's kind of tough to deal without a spare. Another option I've seen people use that seem to be pretty reliable are the Walbro pumps. No extra filtration which is a negative for me but they are much smaller, which would benefit you, and the 2 people I know that run them have no complaints with them.

Thanks, but I think I'll go ahead and cobble up this FP100 on the outside of the frame... Looks like right beside the tank and as high as possible. I'll have about a 12 inch suction line then! Found a couple of holes already in the frame to mount my shop-made bracket, then the factory hanger will bolt to that. I'll keep the big line (from the filter to VP) That came with my FRRP, I see the FP100 came with the 15 lb spring installed and my bag of goodies includes a 17 lb too. Should I go ahead and swap now?