Odd No Start, No Turning Over, No Codes....

[eddielee]

Ok so today at the park the truck didn't start.

checked codes, found no codes, checked fuses all were good.

swapped starter solenoid no change.

Took the starter out, cleaned contacts reassembled, no change.

Jumped from the battery to the solenoid and the truck cranked, fires right up...

 

Now the airbag $ ABS lights are on and the Speedometer nor the odometer are working, however the fuel mileage went down a bit. Will check and see if the trip miles change on the drive, I suspect not.

 

Truck drives fine.

 

Still wonder what is wrong? Any ideas?

[Killer223]

bad ignition switch? i don't know, at the starter solenoid check the small wire for 12V when key in the crank position. but you jumped it so that worked. is the wit to start light lighting up? maybe pcm, Mike will be able to help you more. 

[mopartechnician]

I would say something in ignition side, see if your getting power down to the starter when cranking.

[eddielee]

Weird thing is the windows and heater aren't working either.

 

I tried to install a push button temporarily and it didn't work either, may be the solenoid and it just worked after re-installing the starter.

Will have to dig more tomorrow when it is light out...

This one is rather weird, never experienced anything like this on any other vehicle.

 

I was thinking ignition side, but with the airbag and abs lights being on and the odometer, speedometer, heater and windows not working it is rather weird.

 

I did notice that the positive battery cable has been replaced with an aftermarket clamp and cable, the small wire coming off of it has seemingly burned up a bit and is not capable of carrying the current required by the main box in the engine compartment.

Whoever replaced it trimmed the excess off of the wire going to the main fuse panel and connected it to the small wire.

 

I think the first thing to do is to repair the wire to the main fuse box and clean up the connections better on both batteries.

 

Still weird how the few things that don't work all stopped working at the same time, it would seem like more would die if it was the wire...

[mopartechnician]

If the stuff you said isnt working, then its ignition related. Try tilting the steering column up and down while the key is in the run position. Take the steering column shroud off and check the wires and connector there.

[eddielee]

Somehow I missed the 30A fuse or it blew after everything started, may have been connected just enough that the tester found continuity and blew fully later.

I found it this morning and replaced it all works for the moment.

 

Thank Everyone for their input, glad it is not something worse for the moment.

[eddielee]

So the 30A ignition fuse keeps blowing, thinking it is the starter solenoid.

I would like to know what all is energized and should be tested for a short when the key is in the crank position.

The fuse blows when cranking the engine, or attempting to crank the engine.

 

The starter does not always hit when I try and crank the engine, even with a jump wire...

 

The lug on the solenoid to the starter relay seems to be loose and turns when I tighten the nut so I think this is a high probability.

 

Just need to know what else to check when I am in there tomorrow.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

ED

 

punctuation...

Edited February 2, 2014 by eddielee

[TFaoro]

Definitely sounds like the starter. They are pretty easy to tear apart and look for obvious problems. Maybe contacts getting bad? 

[eddielee]

I had it apart the other day and the contacts were a little pitted just not too bad.

 the lug that comes out of the starter solenoid to the wire did turn and that concerned me.

I am looking for a rebuild kit for it. hard to tell if the one I have found is right or not, and if all the parts I want are there.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/starter-repair-kit-Dodge-Ram-Pickup-5-9L-Diesel-94-02-/310713189295

 

Looks to me like all the parts needed are there, however, if memory serves me correctly, the bolt on the lug is connected to the lug inside the solenoid.

 

What you think about this one? Is there a lug in there or do I need to think more about it and take it apart tomorrow to be sure.

 

I am thinking that I can tighten up the lug on the solenoid and see if it continues to turn..

[eddielee]

Found this writeup on another forum that shows what I am talking about.

 

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=141395

 

The engine start wire stud is what I am talking about turning when tightening, maybe it is not too bad.

Seems like it is a little too loose, not sure it can be fixed right though. I see the square stud is to the battery cable.

[eddielee]

Here are the brushes:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-BRUSH-REPAIR-KIT-DODGE-RAM-PICKUP-DIESEL-5-9L-/370862926929

 

Is there a better place than Ebay to get these parts? 

 

I am thinking the contacts and the brushes above rather than the whoe thing because the rest of it looked great.

Will look at the brushes and solenoid tomorrow again to determine what is necessary.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-DIESEL-RAM-W-CUMMINS-HEAVY-DUTY-UPGRADED-STARTER-CONTACT-REPAIR-KIT-/171120890786

[TFaoro]

Larry B's is a very reputable place. We have 3 trucks with this guy's parts. 

http://www.fostertruck.com/dodge/starters.html

[hex0rz]

Found this writeup on another forum that shows what I am talking about.

 

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=141395

 

The engine start wire stud is what I am talking about turning when tightening, maybe it is not too bad.

Seems like it is a little too loose, not sure it can be fixed right though. I see the square stud is to the battery cable.

 

I was having problems with my starter a while back and this link was very helpful! I remember Mike trying to help me out on it and it was not making any sense with what he was saying! This is why! He is speaking of a starter like this in the link, but my starter I was trying to fix is not like this one! My brush plate is on the other end and not towards the pinion side of the starter, etc.!

[Yankneck696]

When tightening any large insulated starter or solenoid stud, commo practice is to use 2 wrenches (Sometimes a thin ground down one) so that you hold the exterior nut that is holding the stud in place & torque the "Wire lug" nut against it. Common problem for people who have not been taught about it. I only learned after working at an auto electric shop rebuilding starters & alternators. I was just plain darn lucky on the 10 or so I had replaced previously.

Find that cheap Chinese rusty bought at a yardsale for $.10 open end wrench & tale it to the grinder till it's the same thickness as the retainer nut & will not interfere with the luf + a tad more.

 

Ed

[eddielee]

Thank you TFaro for the LarryB's link. I see the solenoid coil which I think may be the ultimate culprit with a short.

 

Thank everyone for their knowledge on this situation.

[eddielee]

Does anyone know what the resistance across the solenoid coil should be?

 

I have the starter out and it reads 1 OHM of resistance from the solenoid stud to the housing.

 

Cleaned up the contacts and Re-assembled the starter seems to work fine now.

time to replace the fuse and see what happens...

 

 

edit for Elaboration

Edited February 3, 2014 by eddielee

[eddielee]

I was having problems with my starter a while back and this link was very helpful! I remember Mike trying to help me out on it and it was not making any sense with what he was saying! This is why! He is speaking of a starter like this in the link, but my starter I was trying to fix is not like this one! My brush plate is on the other end and not towards the pinion side of the starter, etc.!

I see what you are talking about. our starters have the brushes at the back of the armature rather than the front.

 

I still don't think that my contacts were all that bad, definitely not as bad as the ones in the pic on that link.

Today I used a knife, not my first choice, to clean up all the contacts.

 

What I did notice is the plunger contact moves and does not stay centered and this is likely a large part of my issue.

I have a set of contacts with plunger on order so if all is not good I will have to get the copper studs, solenoid coil, and solenoid stud.

[eddielee]

When tightening any large insulated starter or solenoid stud, commo practice is to use 2 wrenches (Sometimes a thin ground down one) so that you hold the exterior nut that is holding the stud in place & torque the "Wire lug" nut against it. Common problem for people who have not been taught about it. I only learned after working at an auto electric shop rebuilding starters & alternators. I was just plain darn lucky on the 10 or so I had replaced previously.

Find that cheap Chinese rusty bought at a yardsale for $.10 open end wrench & tale it to the grinder till it's the same thickness as the retainer nut & will not interfere with the luf + a tad more.

 

Ed

This was part of the issue. I was rushing at the park and was not nearly as diligent as I should have been.

There were other people with a broken serpentine belt on their Ford who kept coming over and bothering me as well.

 

Anyhow, when I pulled it back apart the connection on the solenoid lug was a little loose. I believe this is what popped the fuse as it has not happens as of yet since.

 

I had to use a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the insulator while tightening the nut on the lug this time because there is no second nut.

next time I will get a couple of nuts to lock together so I can hold it with a wrench.

 

ED

[eddielee]

I replaced my batteries yesterday and am curious how much of the starting issue I was having was actually due to lack of amperage.

 

I did not think much of the variance in voltage on the dash meter until I replaced the batteries and the variance was virtually eliminated. Started to worry that the alternator was going out so I stopped and checked voltage and it was upper 13v and mid 14v so all is good there. Seems to me I could have replaced the batteries right off and not had to worry about the contacts...

 

The cleaned up contacts are holding up great! Now I have a new set on hand when needed.

New to you vehicles are so great for learning yet hard on the pocket book!!!