Life with the new 6 Speed Manual

[jonathan1950]

I did a swap several years ago and would not trade back.  I have had only one issue, that is my brake/abs light comes on.  My mileage increased by around four mpg, which was nice but not why I swamped transmissions.  One thing I found during my research is the difference between the NV4500 and NV5600.  I went with the five speed as I heard a lot of people say that the six speed cost more to buy, more to repair and parts are harder to come by.  As Moparman pointed out, low and OD are basically the same, you just have closer ratio between them, but I have not had issue one with the ratio difference.  Many people said it would be easier to just sell my truck and buy a manual, but the swap was almost as easy as R/R an auto transmission.  I did have to have the front drive shaft shortened, but was able to use my rear drive shaft with no issues.  The input shaft on the transfer case has to be changed, but it was pretty easy.  If anyone has any questions I will try and help, I would recommend this to anyone who wants the reliability of a manual.

[Dave3500]

Totally agree! I did find two guys close by that would be able to rebuild my 6-speed when the time comes, I'm pretty easy on it though. My driveshaft is a one piece, non-4x4. Tried to do a two piece but it was cheaper to run 4". Had a few issues w the South Bend slave unit, but they stood behind their product, works great now. I had a slight vibration w the rebuilt Auto, all gone now w the new set up!

Happy Motoring,

Dave

[rancherman]

My trans guy  still assures me that  parts are still available,  probably more aftermarket these days.

 

easier to  sell the auto and  buy back a manual?  hmmm,    probably  less sweat, and skinned knuckles no doubt!   BUT,   just this week,  I've witnessed  a  guy selling  2  99 ram 3500's, Cummins,   at auction.   Identical equipped, color,  everything!   except for   the  trans..   one    had  the  5 speed,  the other  was  auto.

 

The 5 speed  had almost    75k more miles   ~ 286k,   and   brought  $8200   The  auto  had  210k miles,  and   brought  $4150.

[Dave3500]

That's the way it was for me when I bought this truck back in 08. A manual was way out of my budget, so I had to settle for an automatic. At least I was able to purchase a Dodge w a Cummins in it. But the manual is the way to go for a work truck/tow vehicle.

Dave

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

man am i happy my 2500 is paid off and mine outright!  now to fix him... 

[joecool911]

Did you get the won't start feature with the clutch pedal? Unless the pedal is depressed?

[Dave3500]

man am i happy my 2500 is paid off and mine outright!  now to fix him... 

Agreed, that's why I was able to spring for all the parts to do the swap. Next I have to get a boost & an EGT gauge!

 

Did you get the won't start feature with the clutch pedal? Unless the pedal is depressed?

No I didn't, almost every car & every truck now,  I've ever owned has been a stick. So a conditioned response is to put the foot on the clutch even before the key goes in. My Wife will drive it sometimes & she loves to shift as much as I do! She is conditioned to just pust in the clutch. I don't think I could lend my truck out either, I go w the truck!

 

One thing I will miss is by pushing in the clutch it will disengage the cruise control feature that's been in some of my cars!

 

Dave

[rancherman]

I have mixed feelings on the  clutch safety switch..

 

no doubt   it  adds  a  safety element...    which is  good.

 

On the other hand,    I've never liked the idea of  placing   3000+ pounds    forward pressure on   a  non rotating and non floated  crankshaft... then  start  turning it with the starter...  then  holding the clutch down  for  a few more  seconds  while the  OP  starts  building...

 

Ok, let me   do a little math here,     most  pressure plates  are  what?  3-4:1  ratio on the   fingers?    so  the   3000 lbs  would  only  be   750-1000 'felt'  on the end of  crank..  not as  bad  as  I  first thought,  but  it's  still   a consideration!

[joecool911]

Ever had to start a truck with the clutch slave cylinder out? Then shift without the clutch. It can be done. Never done it with a diesel though.

[Dave3500]

So is it better to start the truck in N w/o the clutch or better holding the clutch down?  I never really thought about it like that Rancherman.

 

While shifting, I sometimes even double clutch.

 

Dave

[rancherman]

Well,  my theory is   an engine  that has  sat  overnight, or  longer has minimum  oil   in the  bearings...   the  thrust bearings  that  keep the  crank  in one spot  'fore and aft'   are vertical...  and have  poor  oil holding  capabilities.    Oil  is going to run off   pretty   quick,  compared to the   main journal  bearings  being  horizontal.

 

So,    when  we jump in to start,   push the clutch in....   it's  squeezing the  last of the  oil from  the thrust bearing...     THEN  we   hit the key...    now,  I don't know about you,  but I've  'caught myself'  holding the clutch down,  whilst  awaiting the   'wait to start' light to go out....    geez,   that's  even more time to ensure the  crank is  well-planted   against the bearing!

 .........compound this now with  a  5-600 pound   increase  of  pressure plate  in  an aftermarket  HP   clutch!

 

I've  rebuilt  several  gas engines   from  vehicles  from both    auto and manual   trans,   and     crank  surfaces  always been  tore up  on the manual  equipped ones..   I've  seen more   'good'  cranks  in the scrap barrel down at the  machine shop   with  only  bad (really bad)   thrust  bearing  surfaces...       we are talking      .075  and up  type   wear.... some  had   .150!

 

Starting in  N with  foot off the clutch    should   prevent  a    crank replacement  @  400k..(or whenever an overhaul is required)   where  a    simple   light grind/polish  will suffice!    

[KATOOM]

I monitor the temperatures in both my differential and my 5 speed.  I ran out of gauge locations so I used the cubby hole and a Westach dual temp gauge.  I installed Fastcoolers on the 5 speed and an exhaust blanket where the exhaust pipe runs along the tranny and transfer case.  I also installed a Mag-hytec on the 80.  My findings over this project were quite interesting too.....

 

Mag-hytec with temperature sensor coming out the top.

 

 

This is the old stock exhaust.  Now there's a 4" with two blankets end to end.

 

New exhaust.  The blankets are hard to see up there but they're about 6 feet long combined from one end to the other.

 

Fastcoolers

 

Tranny temp sensor in Fastcoolers.

 

Westach dual temp gauge in cubby hole.

Edited August 24, 2014 by KATOOM

[TFaoro]

Nice setup! Do you think the fast coolers really helped cool it off? The extra fluid capacity should have dropped temperatures as well

[KATOOM]

Without a doubt the Fastcoolers helped.  Yes the added capacity helps the overall temp but the Fastcoolers offer good heat dissipation since they're hollow aluminum and the main transmission body is not.  Although the biggest difference I found was after installing the exhaust blanket as it became apparent that the hot 500*-1000* exhaust pipe was transferring some of that radiant heat over to the neighboring transmission.  The tranny temps dropped around 40* after the blankets.  I can tow a 14k 5th wheel down the freeway in 100* weather in 4th gear and the tranny will stay around 150*-160*.  The biggest heat generator in the tranny is when I have to run in 3rd or 2nd gear because the ratio reduction running through the gears heats the oil.

[TFaoro]

How hot does it get in 5th gear with the same outside temps?

[KATOOM]

Since I never tow anything other than the rowboat In 5th gear..........running down the freeway at around 70 mph in 5th for more than 15 miles or so will generally have the transmission running around 140*-175* depending on the ambient temperature.

[rancherman]

Ever had to start a truck with the clutch slave cylinder out? Then shift without the clutch. It can be done. Never done it with a diesel though.

 

 

Oh yes...  not for   the slave  being out.  LOL,   had  a   disk   rusted to the  flywheel,   took it out  and  thrashed on it  until it  broke loose..

 

My   1994  Toyota   pickup    has  a  provision  right on the  dash  to  start  the  rig  "IN GEAR"     They  recommend  being in low range..      Little  button  called   "clutch start cancel'     It's  for those  times  when  you may need 3 legs  to get out of a  precarious  spot.   My little  22re  engine  has  zero  torque,  and   'idling away'   isn't a  possibility..   the  starter motor  has more  torque  than the  engine  @  idle..

Edited August 25, 2014 by rancherman

[Dave3500]

Well,  my theory is   an engine  that has  sat  overnight, or  longer has minimum  oil   in the  bearings...   the  thrust bearings  that  keep the  crank  in one spot  'fore and aft'   are vertical...  and have  poor  oil holding  capabilities.    Oil  is going to run off   pretty   quick,  compared to the   main journal  bearings  being  horizontal.

 

So,    when  we jump in to start,   push the clutch in....   it's  squeezing the  last of the  oil from  the thrust bearing...     THEN  we   hit the key...    now,  I don't know about you,  but I've  'caught myself'  holding the clutch down,  whilst  awaiting the   'wait to start' light to go out....    geez,   that's  even more time to ensure the  crank is  well-planted   against the bearing!

 .........compound this now with  a  5-600 pound   increase  of  pressure plate  in  an aftermarket  HP   clutch!

 

I've  rebuilt  several  gas engines   from  vehicles  from both    auto and manual   trans,   and     crank  surfaces  always been  tore up  on the manual  equipped ones..   I've  seen more   'good'  cranks  in the scrap barrel down at the  machine shop   with  only  bad (really bad)   thrust  bearing  surfaces...       we are talking      .075  and up  type   wear.... some  had   .150!

 

Starting in  N with  foot off the clutch    should   prevent  a    crank replacement  @  400k..(or whenever an overhaul is required)   where  a    simple   light grind/polish  will suffice!    

Thanks for the info, that's how I've been starting my truck now, Dave!

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

or just rig the clutch switch so you dont have to hold it down while starting

[Ilikeoldfords]

Someone gave me a good idea for the clutch switch. I think it might have been MnTom. Anyway, the idea was to use it as a security device. Instead of using the switch on the master cylinder, just use a regular toggle switch. Mount it under the dash someplace so you cant see it easily. Whenever you park the truck just flip that switch off, now the truck cant be started at all. Makes it really hard for it to be stolen that way, or in my world, makes it really hard for your friends to mess with you!!