VP44 PSG fuel cooler ideas

[rancherman]

sounds  about right!   mine  was  quoted  825  for  a  rebuilt.   plus  they  wanted  300 core if  I  couldn't  return one!

[KATOOM]

You're kinda bumming me out Ed.....  I may live in denial but I still want to believe that there's quality in this country.  You may just have to dig a little deeper to find it since most capitalistic people will take, or have to take in order to remain in business, the cheaper Hecho path.

[Mopar1973Man]

Also, every diode (Or bridge rectifier) drops voltage 1.3 or 1.6 volts. Now, how would you connect the ground casing to the casing of the alternator, then back to the negative part of the wiring system, as the casing is grounded?

I understand that you are trying to find a way to work around the issue & applaud your tenacity.

I have been a Ham radio operator, electrician, designed & built solder reflow machines that were powered by RF energy. My electronic days started with tubes.

 

My honest guess about the alternator issues is that:

1. the packaging requirements do not allow enough heat out.

2. Cheap rebuilds all have Cheap Chinese diode/rectifier packs.

3. our truck's wiring system was marginal at best when designed (Bean counters) & after 15 or so years are deteriorated, due to heat, corrosion & of course vibration.

 

I worked in the auto electric field for a while & usedd to rebuild alternators & starters for the most reputable shop in the Boston area. We used the best of parts & ran every alternator through a full load test, along with hooking them to an oscilliscope to check for AC leakage & to make sure that the brushes were broken in. I called the owner in January & was talking to him about the issue & he stated "Eddie, I just cannot afford to build an alternator with the right parts anymore. Rectifier packs of any quality cost more than 1/2 of what I can buy a Chinese alternator for. So, now, I am just a retail outlet, except for SOME heavy equipment starters. Otherwise, I would have to close the shop down".

For our truck, specificly, he purchases the alternator for $34 & sells them for $88. The good american rectifier pack costs $28 by the 100. The brushes, media blasting of the case, machining of the commutator s, testing of windings, brushes & man hours would put him right out of the market.

 

Keep shoping at Walmart.....

Ed

 

That brings up a valid thought.

 

How many people have butchered battery cables?

How many have butchered electrical systems?

How many have let their battery go dead or below 10.8 volts?

How many have not paid attention during jump starting another vehicle and cross the polarity?

 

All these things will affect the life of the alternator at some point or another.

 

Like my battery cable are absolutely perfect like new yet. (0 voltage loss during cranking)

I've never cut or modified any power system wiring on my truck. No added grounds or anything.

I'm very cautious about my batteries I will refill with distilled water and then equalize charge the batteries while disconnected from the system once a month. I've never let my battery go dead!

I always call out "Red is POSITIVE" to the other person so there is no mistakes.

[KATOOM]

Added grounds bring up a concern.  What are you guys referring to as "added grounds"?  I've added a few electronic devices (guages, sub, exhaust brake solenoid, 2 lo solenoid) but my grounds are always specific to the closest body panel I can reach from the device and I never tap into the negative post.  I have shared a ground just to keep from drilling another hole somewhere but I didnt ever think that was bad.  I'm pretty anal about keeping everything looking as factory as possible so I dont have wires dangling around or sprawled across the engine like some of the spaghetti wiring jobs we've all seen.

 

Also, is there a relation to alternator AC leakage and the amperage output?  Meaning, will a more amperage alternator create more AC than a lower amp version?  Or is the total AC noise related to the charge of the alternator no matter its capability?  Again, when I tested my alternator for AC noise the numbers were .020-.021 at idle and with the air condition and blower on high.

[rancherman]

can anyone read  the values  marked on that transistor?

 

.........go buy one,   hook it up to  various loads, and measure what kind of heat it's putting out??    Or would it be impossible  to  figure  'load'      

 

A  'desoldering'   to me    says   high resistance  at the point of  connection. . not necessarily stemming from the  transistor body itself..    wouldn't the  body itself  be  wiped out too??

 

only ideas here..

[Yankneck696]

WHenever jumping or being jumped, I do all of the connections.

 

Ed

[KATOOM]

WHenever jumping or being jumped, I do all of the connections.

 

Ed

 

That statement could be viewed from many angles.....

[rancherman]

That statement could be viewed from many angles.....

I'm surprised  Dorkweed  didn't  have something to add here...

[snowshoveler]

I was going to say something about Ed sidetracking this thread but I said to myself no thats just not a nice thing to do.

I guess I am not the only one that looks at a situation from a couple angles.

Normally I would say pictures or it didn't happen but someone might get their wires crossed and get grounded.

I will shut up now before I get a timeout myself.

At least you folks have a good sense of humour.

Chris

[KATOOM]

can anyone read  the values  marked on that transistor?

 

.........go buy one,   hook it up to  various loads, and measure what kind of heat it's putting out??    Or would it be impossible  to  figure  'load'      

 

A  'desoldering'   to me    says   high resistance  at the point of  connection. . not necessarily stemming from the  transistor body itself..    wouldn't the  body itself  be  wiped out too??

 

only ideas here..

 

rancherman, I think thats a logical concept.  I'm not electrically savvy to understand the if, ands, and whats, but it would it seem possible to measure the "heat" generated at the transistor if you could measure the load.

[JAG1]

When I google ' problems with no lead solder', there are a few things mentioned about some issues, bad connections and so forth. Need to look into this further when I have more time.

 

Since I have a hard time understanding some of the tech terms, perhaps someone with electrical experience/ education look into this for us. I think this might be another direction to go.

[MnTom]

OK, Here is another thing to consider about soldering. What about the possibility of having a poor solder joint on the transistor and therefore causing a higher amp draw (or milli-amp) and the resulting load along with the poor connection causing the transistor to overheat? This may be something that was found out and fixed without any sort of notice to the public?

[Yankneck696]

My thought on that is that the solder goes bad from heat cycles & connections go bad to draw the amps, because the voltage is not there. Or, the transistor is so hot that it messes up the connection, which in turn does the same thing.

Ed

[KATOOM]

I want to believe that the PSG issue has something to do with "heat cycles" but if this was true then there would be direct correlation with failures and the trucks running in hot climates verses those which are driven in the more temperate areas.  Which is why I'm feeling this is merely a "starting cycle" voltage issue altogether.  But.....I also hope it has nothing to do with heat cycles just so I feel more comfortable driving my truck anywhere in the summer.....   

[Mopar1973Man]

My thought on that is that the solder goes bad from heat cycles & connections go bad to draw the amps, because the voltage is not there. Or, the transistor is so hot that it messes up the connection, which in turn does the same thing.

Ed

 

I would tend to say this would be more so common with weak battery cables or weak batteries. Because there is one rule that will never change.

 

Watts = Volts x Amps

 

So if the Watts or load of the device stays the same and the voltage is reduced from normal 13.5-14.5 volts down to 10.5 during a hard crank now the Amps always will jump up in respect to the loss of voltage. So same would be true for devices in the VP44. So lets say the transistor is marginal about current flow it could be just a bad ground cable on the battery that would increase the current flow on the VP44.

 

Here what I mean.

 

100 Watt load = 14.5 Volts x 6.89 Amps

 

100 Watt load = 13.5 Volts x 7.40 Amps

 

100 watt load = 10.5 Volts x 9.52 Amps

 

Cummins States 8 Volts is rock bottom voltage.

 

100 Watt load = 8.0 Volts x 12.5 Amps

 

So just weak connections, bad ground or weak batteries could add extra current flow or heat to a device or single component. Food for thought...

[Yankneck696]

Most definitely, Michael. That could be one of the reasons that yours is lasting well, you are a meticulous maintaining MF.

Did you get my email?

 

Ed

[Mopar1973Man]

you are a meticulous maintaining MF.

 

Really?

 

 

Did you get my email?

 

Yes Sir... PM sent.

[KATOOM]

I think thats a logical approach Mike.  It could merely be the combination of all that it takes to crank over this iron slug is too great or maybe the wiring to the VP is too light weight.

[Yankneck696]

The engineers design things well. The bean counters say "We can save 29 pounds of wire by going to a smaller gauge wire & save money in the process. They even use thinner mil copper clad on the boards & less expensive (Quality) components.

 

Ed

[Mopar1973Man]

I think thats a logical approach Mike.  It could merely be the combination of all that it takes to crank over this iron slug is too great or maybe the wiring to the VP is too light weight.

 

Simple way of checking this and being sure there is no voltage loss in the wiring to and from the VP44. That is called doing a voltage drop test which happens to be in the article database already. The only difference is that you will not be checking while cranking but while the engine is running (wiring under load). Any wire with a voltage loss of 0.2 or more is a instant fail.

 

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/34-engine-system/136-voltage-drop-testing-of-wiring-and-feed-cables

 

Or another way is to ohm each wire from end to end and if the ohm is greater than 5 ohms its a instant fail.