VP44 PSG fuel cooler ideas

[KATOOM]

Interesting discussion guys.....   For whatever reason, I enjoy these topics.  It sure would be handy to have a Bosch test bench.  Has anyone watched video's like these http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=yfrIjl3JXfg  Or seen websites like these http://www.remmington.info/edc%20diesel%20pump.htm and http://www.vp44diesel.de/en/home

All foreign and they seem to know a heck of a lot more about these injection pumps than you can find from most USA companies who seem to only sell the whole core and not bother with any of the understandings.

 

I feel like we're talking about some FDA regulated drug or food whereby everyone is told and believes that somethings healthy or bad only to find out years later the complete opposite.  We "think" we understand the VP but hopefully we dont find out in a few years how wrong we are.....

 

And Ed, Frank was alive and popular in the 70's.  I could be way wrong but given how "altered" that era was I would wager his substance intake was more than just an annual glass of wine.

[Yankneck696]

FZ is my #2 favorite, after Warren Zevon. I read his autobiography & also know one of his former prodigys (Adrian Belew) very well. I think I can trust my sources well. He was just a genius when it came to music.

 

Ed

[KATOOM]

FZ is my #2 favorite, after Warren Zevon. I read his autobiography & also know one of his former prodigys (Adrian Belew) very well. I think I can trust my sources well. He was just a genius when it came to music.

 

Ed

 

Ed I'm just poking fun at ya..... Just poking fun.

[JAG1]

Is it possible that AC noise can elevate to damaging levels under higher electrical demands and higher  engine revs?

Edited August 10, 2014 by JAG1

[KATOOM]

Is it possible that AC noise can elevate to damaging levels under higher electrical demands and higher  engine revs?

 

And/or higher engine temps?

[Mopar1973Man]

Now that where you got to study up on diodes and the alternator brushes and see what the impact could be. So far my truck under a cold start <60*F with grid heater might have a slight surge to .6 but its so fast of change my fluke meter has a hard time catching it. A analog meter would most likely show it better but finding a multi-frequency analog meter is tough.

[rancherman]

In my case it would be best to ditch the stock fuel filter can to quit absorbing heat from the manifold. Remember there is a coolant passage in the intake for this reason. But since I'm in the northern states and cold winters do happen (-25*F) I'll keep the stock filter can.

 

Again... Think about it. I've got 4 computers and under full load I can see 160-180*F working temp of the CPU. Also remember I don't have air conditioning here in the house so it possible to see 85-87*F inside the house. Just idling around at 10% load I'm still 130-140*F. This computer is over 5 years old and no harm has come from working it for 48 hours straight at 100% load. (Doing web site backups) Even worse take my laptop to work and use it in a shop with room temperature of 105*F and still work the laptop well into the 160-180*F range and no issues.

 

So why would a mere 130*F fuel temp be a panic for the VP44? Also once again how many reported P0168 codes have you seen? (I've only see one!)

I'm leaning  this way too Mike ^^^^^^

I'd  like to  interject  one factor,  and  that's  the  'shock'   that  may  go through  the  pump  after  a   good  heat soak,  upon  restart.     I'd like to think  that particular   cycle  is  perhaps  the most  violent  in temp swings.

 

Lets  say  your  tank temp is  85,   your  pump's  maxed out  at  140..     fire up the engine  and  you are suddenly  circulating  (after   filter  contents  gets pumped out)     60  degree swing  downward  in a minute or so.

 

now,  put this in a  vehicle that's started/shut down   10-15 times a day,    that's a lot of   wide  swings!

[Mopar1973Man]

Hard on my system being I've got the stock filter can so the fuel in the fuel filter can is going to be warm and not shock the VP44 on restart. Where someone that deleted the can might see this issue. (But again this all theory right now.) I've worked with Ed and also tried working with ScanGauge II on getting fuel temp for the ScanGauge. They just don't want to help me with the old school ISO bus system they would rather only support the newer CANBUS systems.

[KATOOM]

Hard on my system being I've got the stock filter can so the fuel in the fuel filter can is going to be warm and not shock the VP44 on restart. Where someone that deleted the can might see this issue. (But again this all theory right now.) I've worked with Ed and also tried working with ScanGauge II on getting fuel temp for the ScanGauge. They just don't want to help me with the old school ISO bus system they would rather only support the newer CANBUS systems.

 

The older these ISB trucks get, the more this will become an issue as the money is moving over to the newer generations.  I think the only thing keeping these trucks around is their proven reliability and capable HP with the high performance world like truck and tractor pulls.

[KATOOM]

Does anyone know how to decipher the PSG date codes under the bar code?

[hex0rz]

I'm thinking the biggest way to keep temps down is by actively cooling the fuel through a radiator heat exchange system. I had thought about this idea for a while when I first got the truck. Now, it seems like a big waste of time to me. No offense to anyone when I say that. But its my opinion.

 

I just don't see how its worth it when these trucks run just fine without one, or is this just for conversation sake?

[KATOOM]

This is ALL for conversation ONLY.  Since none of us have a Bosch test bench or are one of the engineers who built the contraption, we can only speculate with the best intentions.  Of the past 10 years I've been on these forums discussing the VP Mike is the only person I've seen who has personally dissembled one with the intention of research. 

[rancherman]

Then again,     a  new pump  every  150-200k  miles  isn't exactly    terrible either....      We'll spend  more on tires  in the same  amount of miles

[hex0rz]

This is ALL for conversation ONLY.  Since none of us have a Bosch test bench or are one of the engineers who built the contraption, we can only speculate with the best intentions.  Of the past 10 years I've been on these forums discussing the VP Mike is the only person I've seen who has personally dissembled one with the intention of research. 

 

Gotcha

[Mopar1973Man]

Mike is the only person I've seen who has personally dissembled one with the intention of research.

 

 

Thanks Katoom...

 

As for the PSG failure I do think there is a certain amount of failure from heat, then a certain amount of failure from AC noise, then another amount from physical abuse/vibration.

 

Ed brings up the topic of the junk lead free solder. But if you watch some of the videos where people replace the transistor they will talk about the legs of the OE transistor being aluminum (or a alloy of some type). Solder won't stick to it. Make you wonder about what was use on the OE.

[Yankneck696]

No transistors are made with aluminum conductor legs. Most likely the problem is that a special flux is needed for no lead solder. Also, my speculation is that after so many heat cycles, it has heat cycle fatigue & may change the properties of the medium. Just speculation.

 

Ed

[rancherman]

Hard on my system being I've got the stock filter can so the fuel in the fuel filter can is going to be warm and not shock the VP44 on restart. Where someone that deleted the can might see this issue. (But again this all theory right now.) I've worked with Ed and also tried working with ScanGauge II on getting fuel temp for the ScanGauge. They just don't want to help me with the old school ISO bus system they would rather only support the newer CANBUS systems.

geez mike,  just how  poor of a  fuel system do  you have....  how  long  do you think it takes  to  flush a filter can  MAYBE  holding a  quart of fuel  with your top notch  pump???     30 seconds??        

I'd  say the  fuel temp  in the filter can is  pretty darn close  to  everything else  AFTER a  heat soak,  how can it not? ;   4 inches away  from  the  side of the block,  under the hood,  bolted  directly to  the   intake..   

All great for  wintertime no doubt.   

I wasn't  figuring  millisecond-type-shock...      30  seconds  in my  tiny brain  is  still pretty  quick,  especially  when  considering  the  delicacy of  certain components.   yes yes,   then  the  44 itself  has  tempering too...  so  maybe  'shock'  isn't  the  perfect word I  originally used,  but   'swing'  more  fitting. 

[KATOOM]

The AC noise or electrical resistance variable may be worth more attention since given what some of you have found and think, I'm not sure that we can blame as much on heat as we currently are.  Thats not to say heat isnt the issue but maybe not the culprit I was thinking.  My new toy laser is really fun but I havent had a chance to do any testing with the truck.

 

Anyways, years ago during one of the many lengthy conversations I had with Chip, we were discussing the consideration whereby moving the PSG altogether sounded like the way to go.  But unfortunately "supposedly" there was people (how many?) who had attempted this but found that interfering AC noise only increased as the ribbon wire was lengthened.  Too bad too.....  Or maybe someone more understanding of the process could do better?????  Not me of course.....

[rancherman]

how many of us  have used  battery chargers  (still attached and  buzzing)  to help  start in the winter?

[Mopar1973Man]

how many of us  have used  battery chargers  (still attached and  buzzing)  to help  start in the winter?

 

I typically disconnect the batteries (Positive cable) and charge my batteries. I know that most battery chargers are rather dirty DC power.

 

I had with Chip, we were discussing the consideration whereby moving the PSG altogether sounded like the way to go.  But unfortunately "supposedly" there was people (how many?) who had attempted this but found that interfering AC noise only increased as the ribbon wire was lengthened.

 

You would have to use shielded cable to prevent the noise injection of the sensor.