AirDog 150 in cold weather

[LiveOak]

Air dog told me they run into this problem a lot. They gave a number to a shop in North Dakota. This shop makes parts to plumb engine coolant to the air dog pump. It's pretty expensive. They told me filter heater wraps should do the trick.

 

So, am I to take this that the customer pays for this or does AirDog???

[mopartechnician]

Its not airdogs fault. Fass does the same thing. They actually have a kit with a small heater.

[LiveOak]

Its not airdogs fault. Fass does the same thing. They actually have a kit with a small heater.

 

I understand that.  That kits costs $189.05.  It should be no cost to the customer.  These types of problems should have been foreseen and dealt with long before these pumps were released for sale to the public.  Maybe they are and I am looking at this wrong.   

[mopartechnician]

Why should they have to pay for it? Thats just like saying dodge should have to pay for a trans or an engine because you thought 200hp over stock was needed.

Edited November 21, 2014 by mopartechnician

[LiveOak]

Why should they have to pay for it? Thats just like saying dodge should have to pay for a trans or an engine because you thought a 200hp over stock was needed.

 

These pumps are advertised and buyers are led to believe they are a vast improvement of the OEM pump and in most case they are.........however, these pumps should work in ALL conditions just as the OEM pumps should.  It is bad enough that the customer has to fork out another $600 for a fuel pump to replace the OEM fuel pump that should be adequate in the first place.  Being required to pay out even more for something that should have worked in the first place round II is not my idea of a pump that supposedly is an improvement over OEM systems.  At the very least, they should make it VERY & CRYSTAL clear to the customer that these pumps are NOT suitable for use in cold weather climates and if used without proper modification at significant customer cost over and above the cost of the pump, SERIOUS damage can be caused to the injector pump.  I doubt this would be very good for Airdog or FASS pump sales. 

 

On edit:  In addition to the above, Diamler/Chrysler (at the time) had their OWN technical service bulletins that were not only contradictory in nature but clearly demonstrated the OEM pump was NOT suitable, reliable, nor suited for the purpose it was sold as even on a bone stock truck.  I remember when my VP gave me the P0216 death code at 48K babied and bones stock miles all caused by the totally worthless and inadequate Carter OEM lift pump.   Remember all of the Cummins Campaign Lift Pumps, Diamler/Chrysler BS fuel volume tests, and the TSB that installed the in tank lift pump that was STILL junk?  All I ask is that if you sell it, stand behind your product and work with the customer.  For $600, Airdog needs to stand behind their pump and make it right. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by LiveOak

[Dieselfuture]

Now you know why I've got my AirDog tucked right behind the transfer case trying to keep the cold wind off the filters.

Have you tested it in a wind tunnel ? Just kidding.

[Dieselfuture]

These pumps are advertised and buyers are led to believe they are a vast improvement of the OEM pump and in most case they are.........however, these pumps should work in ALL conditions just as the OEM pumps should. It is bad enough that the customer has to fork out another $600 for a fuel pump to replace the OEM fuel pump that should be adequate in the first place. Being required to pay out even more for something that should have worked in the first place round II is not my idea of a pump that supposedly is an improvement over OEM systems. At the very least, they should make it VERY & CRYSTAL clear to the customer that these pumps are NOT suitable for use in cold weather climates and if used without proper modification at significant customer cost over and above the cost of the pump, SERIOUS damage can be caused to the injector pump. I doubt this would be very good for Airdog or FASS pump sales.

On edit: In addition to the above, Diamler/Chrysler (at the time) had their OWN technical service bulletins that were not only contradictory in nature but clearly demonstrated the OEM pump was NOT suitable, reliable, nor suited for the purpose it was sold as even on a bone stock truck. I remember when my VP gave me the P0216 death code at 48K babied and bones stock miles all caused by the totally worthless and inadequate Carter OEM lift pump. Remember all of the Cummins Campaign Lift Pumps, Diamler/Chrysler BS fuel volume tests, and the TSB that installed the in tank lift pump that was STILL junk? All I ask is that if you sell it, stand behind your product and work with the customer. For $600, Airdog needs to stand behind their pump and make it right.

Agreed.

[rancherman]

Geez, with the treated fuel and the #1 in there it really shouldnt be gelling. Unfortunatly, I think Mopartech is right though. Those are the exact symptoms of what mine was doing when it gelled last winter too. When it got really cold though, like -25 and colder, I would actually have to turn the pump pressure up just a hair because even with straight #1 the pressure started dropping off. I dont know if the pump was getting physically to cold or what but even if the fuel was not even close to gelled, I would start losing pressure.

 

I believe  your  pressure 'loss'  is  from the  thinner fuel!    1.  pump  is  not   quite  as   'tight'  as  we may think, and  is less efficient  with  thinner fuel.. and 2.   the fuel  gets  'through' ' the  bypasses  a tad easier.

 

The difference in #2 and #1  is  quite noticeable  (viscous wise)

[Dieselfuture]

I believe your pressure 'loss' is from the thinner fuel! 1. pump is not quite as 'tight' as we may think, and is less efficient with thinner fuel.. and 2. the fuel gets 'through' ' the bypasses a tad easier.

The difference in #2 and #1 is quite noticeable (viscous wise)

If I may, I still got summer fuel in my tank and here in iowa past few weeks was cold. My pressure went to 15 from normal 19-20 and if I park it at work in heated garage when I go home it's back at 19-20. I think it's as simple as Mike says nothing you can do but warm fuel up somehow. Even if I take of from home and pressure is only 15 by the time I get to work it will clime to 18. Goes through IP and returns to tank a bit wormer.

[rancherman]

Gotcha!  ^^^^

Still,   15  is pretty good.

 

Yep,   Just west of you...  I'm about 2 hours  west of  Sioux City..   Wasn't  Sunday morning  a kick in the  teeth??

[440Rat]

Back in 2007 i put an AD100 on my truck. That winter temps dropped down to -25 and my pump would hardly build pressure.Everyone said it had jelled, so I treated the fuel with no luck. When the truck finally started and I got half way to work, everything just quit. Turns out an o-ring on the back side of the pump shrunk in the cold allowing the pump to suck air, allowing it to loose pressure buring it out. Jump a head to now, when my new FASS shows up I'm going to wrap it up or buy that heater kit and keep it warm.

[Mopar1973Man]

Have you tested it in a wind tunnel ? Just kidding.

 

Yeah Idaho highways at minus temps.

[Dieselfuture]

Yeah Idaho highways at minus temps.

That's cool I wish we had more snow here. Just gets cold most of time and not a lot of snow.

[Mailboxperry]

I put a fuel filter heater on both filters. With both filter heaters turned on, there is no change in fuel pressure. Doesn't matter how long I let them run.

And has anyone ever watched what their fuel temps are when its cold out?

And can someone tell me where my quadzilla gets its reading for fuel temp?

[Mopar1973Man]

And can someone tell me where my quadzilla gets its reading for fuel temp?

 

As for the fuel temp information is from the VP44. There is the tone wheel and the fuel temperature sensor inside the pump.

[Dieselfuture]

I put a fuel filter heater on both filters. With both filter heaters turned on, there is no change in fuel pressure. Doesn't matter how long I let them run.

And has anyone ever watched what their fuel temps are when its cold out?

And can someone tell me where my quadzilla gets its reading for fuel temp?

I think it's because air god 150 is cycling so much volume of fuel it doesn't matter. On my truck if it's 20 out it will take 15-20 min before pressure rises, and if 0 it will stay pretty low unless fuel is treated and not gelling. Last yeah when it got below 0 I didn't even bother starting it, I have a sample of fuel in clear glass jar sitting out side and if it's gelled it's pointless to rape the truck.

[440Rat]

I have a sample of fuel in clear glass jar sitting out side and if it's gelled it's pointless to rape the truck.

 

 Excellent idea. 

 

 Kind of an out there in left field question, but have you guys ever thought about wrapping your tanks in that heat tape you can put on your roofs to prevent ice jams? Plug it in at night and it would keep your tank warm preventing gell...

[MoparFreak1988]

 Excellent idea. 

 

 Kind of an out there in left field question, but have you guys ever thought about wrapping your tanks in that heat tape you can put on your roofs to prevent ice jams? Plug it in at night and it would keep your tank warm preventing gell...

I wondered that also or using something like http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-12-ft-Water-Pipe-Heat-Cable-HC12A/100032792 rundown the frame over the fuel lines and insulated and then around the tank  wire it up so when you plug your truck in at night it keeps the fuel warm   

My other thought which may sound stupid is most fuel tanks on trucks I have seen in my day have some form of forward and lower skid pan or are double wall, well maybe mine is special but I don't have one and I think that could make a difference.

merely because at 50 mph wind is now hitting the tank and radiating to the fuel directly where as with a skid plate you have the air gap now once its all warmed up that air gap may be crucial to held keeping fuel warm

The theory is simple why would you put plastic over your windows in your home in winter to help keep it warm?  because once its warm that air gap makes for added insulation. 

I have never gelled up but I also use Diesel 911 in my truck every third fill up versus the standard treatment every fill up,  this is how our fire department has doe it for over 30 years without a problem yet and those trucks have idled at below zero for days in the past

Not to hijack but do you guys think you would have the same problem with lets say a mechanical fuel pump (assassin)                                                   call me crazy but thats my   

Edited December 5, 2014 by MoparFreak1988

[Dieselfuture]

I wondered that also or using something like http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-12-ft-Water-Pipe-Heat-Cable-HC12A/100032792 rundown the frame over the fuel lines and insulated and then around the tank wire it up so when you plug your truck in at night it keeps the fuel warm

My other thought which may sound stupid is most fuel tanks on trucks I have seen in my day have some form of forward and lower skid pan or are double wall, well maybe mine is special but I don't have one and I think that could make a difference.

merely because at 50 mph wind is now hitting the tank and radiating to the fuel directly where as with a skid plate you have the air gap now once its all warmed up that air gap may be crucial to held keeping fuel warm

The theory is simple why would you put plastic over your windows in your home in winter to help keep it warm? because once its warm that air gap makes for added insulation.

I have never gelled up but I also use Diesel 911 in my truck every third fill up versus the standard treatment every fill up, this is how our fire department has doe it for over 30 years without a problem yet and those trucks have idled at below zero for days in the past

Not to hijack but do you guys think you would have the same problem with lets say a mechanical fuel pump (assassin) call me crazy but thats my

Not sure what ether one looks like inside but if I had to guess pretty similar, difference one is driven by belt and the other electricity. And I still ththink restriction will be in filters, and if push them with too much pressure might collapse media. Just my guess. Edited January 5, 2015 by Dieselfuture

[Dieselfuture]

Here we go again, only 16F out this morning and my fuel is cloudy, and I have about 1/4 mix of suggested on label power service 911. So I'm done buying fuel at regular convenient stores and will have to drive extra 10-15ml or so to a truck station. We'll be seeing -25F on Wednesday with wind chills as low as -40 I think I'll be seeing a few diesel trucks on the side of the road. Hoping my gasser starts to get me to work. This brings another question at what temperature do batteries frieze and lose charging abilities, and would it help to put a charger on them when extremely cold out or just as easy take them out and bring them inside.