I didnt want to mix up the threads by posting unrelated information so I figured I would start a new one.  This thread is for figuring out what works and what you find your truck likes.  

 

I did some more datalogging as of late and found that a more aggressive timing curve later in the rpm band, say 2500 + rpm, seems to pull harder up top.  Previous I was running tunes that maxed timing at 26*.  I took 2 tunes copied them and ran them back to back on the same stretch of road, same conditions.   I was not using wiretap for this so I will leave those details out

 

First Tune 29* max

Quote

Race 29*
Number of Power Levels	6
RPM Limit	3700
Valet Mode
Maximum Valet Mode Power	35
Timing Parameters
Fuel Load Timing	1
Low PSI Timing Reduct	5
Timing Reduct Scaling	80
LightThrottle Timing Adv	1
Light Throttle Limit	35
Timing Equilzer
1500RPM	16
2000RPM	19
2500RPM	24
3000RPM	27
MAX	29
Boost Level Fueling - CAN Bus
0 PSI	88
1 PSI	90
2 PSI	92
3 PSI	94
4 PSI	98
5 PSI	102
6 PSI	106
7 PSI	110
8 PSI	114
9 PSI	118
10 PSI	122
11 PSI	126
12 PSI	130
13 PSI	134
14 PSI	138
15 PSI	142
16 PSI	146
18 PSI	150
20 PSI	150
22 PSI	150
24 PSI	150
26 PSI	150
28 PSI	150
30+ PSI	150

 

Second Tune 26* max

Quote

race 26*
Number of Power Levels	6
RPM Limit	3700
Valet Mode
Maximum Valet Mode Power	35
Timing Parameters
Fuel Load Timing	1
Low PSI Timing Reduct	5
Timing Reduct Scaling	80
LightThrottle Timing Adv	1
Light Throttle Limit	35
Timing Equilzer
1500RPM	16
2000RPM	19
2500RPM	22
3000RPM	25
MAX	26
Boost Level Fueling - CAN Bus
0 PSI	88
1 PSI	90
2 PSI	92
3 PSI	94
4 PSI	98
5 PSI	102
6 PSI	106
7 PSI	110
8 PSI	114
9 PSI	118
10 PSI	122
11 PSI	126
12 PSI	130
13 PSI	134
14 PSI	138
15 PSI	142
16 PSI	146
18 PSI	150
20 PSI	150
22 PSI	150
24 PSI	150
26 PSI	150
28 PSI	150
30+ PSI	150

 

 

The interesting thing is the tunes are the same except for the timing above 2500 rpm.  If you look on the graph rpms hit that 2500 rpm mark at about line 20-21, each line is ~.3 seconds so 3 lines = 1 second.    You can see where timing jumps and also where boost jumps. 

 

Now keep in mind the graphs are not exact so take them with a grain of salt, but everything appears to show that the tune with higher timing up top gives faster time to 50 mph, and a faster ramp up of boost.  The higher timing tune appeared to reach 50 mph nearly 1 second faster.

 

as always studs are a good idea, but I am fairly sure anyone can run this timing above 2500 rpm.    If people are not blowing their heads off left and right with other tuners then there is no reason why this type of timing curve will hurt with the Quadzilla. 

 

 

Food for thought, open to other thoughts.

I should note that now the truck is able to stall itself when putting it into gear.  cold truck is worse, but it can still hapeen in some situtations when hot.  I am going to test if timing makes a difference or not, worst comes to worst I might try and up the idle to 800

8 hours ago, kzimmer said:

Very interesting. I may have ordered a cheap pop tester and an adapter for Cummins injectors today...

 

If you do please post up where you found it all at. 

Another video.  @pepsi71ocean Another video of the result of increasing pop pressure

 

here's a 30 mph 3rd gear locked pull.  Snap input to %80 throttle.  Same 7 x .012 injectors at 330bar

 

 

 

The truck pulls so so so much harder compared to the 7 x .009s  boost is a touch lower but I am not reving it out yet.  Egts on hard pulls is unchanged.

 

6 hours ago, Me78569 said:

I should note that now the truck is able to stall itself when putting it into gear.  cold truck is worse, but it can still hapeen in some situtations when hot.  I am going to test if timing makes a difference or not, worst comes to worst I might try and up the idle to 800

 

Another theoretical question. Sorry in advance, haha.

 

Let's say your 7x.012's popping at 330 bar are stalling the truck when you throw it in gear. Do you think stepping up to a 7x.014 with the same pop pressure would alleviate this condition, or at least lessen the effect? 

 

I'm a little on the fence here. On one hand, both injectors need to pop at the same pressure, no pop no fuel. But when the .014's pop, that's an extra 16.67% fuel. Maybe I'm over thinking this.

Yes I would think 7 x .014's would respond better to 330 than 7 x .012's but that;s a wild guess.  

 

I am going to write in a routine to add fueling if rpms are dropping and below 700.   The reason the truck is stalling is the ecm is pulling too much fuel for the injecfors.  

6 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

If you do please post up where you found it all at. 

 

Ok, here it is. And please keep in mind I absolutely understand the stigma with buying things off of fleaBay. However I think with a pop tester, if you aren't leaking and the gauge is accurate, rock on. If I could find something affordable made locally I would have definitely picked something up around home.

 

Here's the pop tester:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Diesel-Injector-Nozzle-Pop-Pressure-Tester-Dual-Read-Bar-PSI-Gauge-S60H-W-Filter/201600134081?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

Here's the Cummins injector adapter:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Injector-Adapter-Holding-Tool-Cummins-5-9-L-Diesel-1998-2002-Dodge-Ram-ISB/321088744729?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

I hope postng these links doesn't break any rules. If it's a problem please let me know.

 

I got some shims coming off of eBay. Pretty pricey, wish I could make them myself. Once I measure them and understand what they are, I might be able to find a cheaper option for that.

I'm pretty excited to start playing with this. I also need to get my Jetta TDI's injectors popped as well, so I think I can justify this purchase. Hell, getting nozzles installed to injectors and popped at my local diesel shop was well over $125 CAD if I remember right. Possibly a lot more.

fleabay is good for stuff like this.

A little off topic, but what do you guys pay for services like pop testing/shimming where you're from? Labor for everything where I'm from has sky rocketed. My wallet gets molested if I pay for any services. It's why I try to do everything myself. Shop labor is about $115-130 CAD ($90-105 USD) per hour.

 

I make decent money... But not that decent!

~$20 per injector

 

 

Here was a 0-60 run with the 7 x .012's.  Not as clean as I would like but the tune is getting close. 

 

 

Compare that to the race tune with my 7 x .009's using wiretap.

 

If you look at where I went WOT vs where I hit 60 the runs are nearly identical.   So 7 x .012's running fairly clean with no wiretap compared to 7 x .009's with more smoke and running wiretap.    In my opinion I would call the 7 x .009 run smokier than the 7 x .012's

 

As a side note I am pretty sure I have a boost leak.  I am gonna test here in a few days and see.    I am also pretty sure i am pushing hte lockup clutch in the TC beyond what it can handle.  

I find this thread interesting @Me78569. I'm tempted to pull and send out my 100's to Jacobb and have them set up to 330 bar just to see the effects it has with the smarty.

 

I think that increasing pressure would retard timing a bit, allowing me to have better atiomization on T3. Can you confirm this with the Quad, that upping the pop retards the ignition slightly. 

 

12 hours ago, Me78569 said:

~$20 per injector

 

 

Here was a 0-60 run with the 7 x .012's.  Not as clean as I would like but the tune is getting close. 

 

 

This is about as smokey as my dodge is running 0-65 pedal to the floor.  I'm really curious.

I will have to get this starter fixed and do some Roll testing maybe later this week when my ankle clears up.

I can't confirm it actually retards timing, my guess is it does, but I have no way to tell for sure.  

 

It isn't much if it is there.  like I said after ~1300 rpm you can't tell the difference.  The fuel atomizes better, but I dont think timing is a huge issue.

21 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I can't confirm it actually retards timing, my guess is it does, but I have no way to tell for sure.  

 

It isn't much if it is there.  like I said after ~1300 rpm you can't tell the difference.  The fuel atomizes better, but I dont think timing is a huge issue.

But I see less smoke in your video's, which leads me to believe that you could see better pre boost spool up (I think)?

Quote

16 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

But I see less smoke in your video's, which leads me to believe that you could see better pre boost spool up (I think)?

You are comparing different injector sizes.  the 7 x .009's have a starting point of %15 below OEM fueling commands, the 7 x .012's start at %35 less than OEM duration.  Timing curves are the exact same in the videos

 

@pepsi71ocean

^{I have never noticed a big difference in smoke as a result of small timing changes.  The smoke contorl you are seeing is %100 the fine tuning of the canbus fueling command and the better atomization due to pop pressure.   I am cutting OEM fueling by ~%35 offidle.  You can see the fueling graph below.  All Snap throttle input to %100 TPS from idle.  Orange is my Quadzilla tune, Blue is OEM and gray is SW3 on a smarty.  If I was to run on oem tuning it would be a smoke show, same as sw3.   No amount of Revo settings would help.}  

Edited October 3, 20177 yr by Me78569

Like I said before Smarty S-03 does not offer and fuel to boost management for large injector and provide fuel rates BELOW stock just like @Me78569 just showed.

@pepsi71ocean

 

Heres an example of these 7 x .012's on stock tuning  Snap input and lug down tests.  

 

 

 

 

Wish I could thank you twice for the video @Me78569. Just shows the short coming of the S-03 Smarty and lack of fuel to boost management. This is where Smarty UDC Pro and Quadzilla come out on top.

I wish I was at sea level to do a video.  I bet people would be surprised how clean these injectors are at sea level.   The altitude makes 50's seem like 100's in terms of smoke output.  

For the most part I'm close to sea level with elevation of 2,800 at home. Then Riggins, ID with 1,800 going lower to Lewiston, ID at 800 or so. I can reverse this head to McCall at nearly a mile high. Going to Heavens Gate look out is over 9,000 feet. So I can play both sides if I wish.

On 10/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Me78569 said:

I wish I was at sea level to do a video.  I bet people would be surprised how clean these injectors are at sea level.   The altitude makes 50's seem like 100's in terms of smoke output.  

 

Now the smoke output your saying is based on your trucks programming with the Quad. I'm fairly close to sea level, at least when I'm not in Reading PA.

Yes, the quad is %100 in control of fueling and timing the result is what I have posted in the videos.     If you put the truck to oem tuning there is no way I could haul my horse trailer. I would have serious EGT issues and serious smoke issues hauling it up the mountain.    

The kicker is there really isn't much power difference in the truck offidle, with stock tuning and my quadzilla tune starting at %35 lower than oem fueling command.    Key is that there is just too much fuel offidle with the 7 x .012's to not flood the turbo if you go WOT.