-27° C yesterday morning, and -28° C this morning. Without the wind. Both my diesels are dead, even after being plugged in. I hate winter....

 

Yesterday morning we weren't at home so the truck wasn't plugged in. The forecast was -18° over night and it got to -27°. Was pretty sure it was gelled up so I got some fuel de-icer, got a very long extension cord from the hotel staff, plugged in for an hour or so, and fired up alright. This morning, after being plugged in for hours, I can't seem to crank enough until I need to wait for the batteries to charge... Ugh..

 

My 2003 Jetta TDI has similar issues. Poured a little bit of de icer in that too just in case. Have to wait til the truck gets fired up to move the charger over to the car. Fun Christmas morning.

 

I get fuel from the most reputable place around, and I'm sure they run winter fuel, I just don't know what strength. Anybody else on here get temps this cold? We are in an extreme cold warning right now. Still currently -27° C (-17° F). Luckily it's not too windy, only feels like a -40° wind chill lol. (FYI, -40°C = -40°F)

 

Merry Christmas. Stay warm.

 

 

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One down, one to go...

20171225_121821.mp4

5 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

 

 

So you had the current pop pressure with different nozzles? And the issue started with new nozzles? 

 

That sounds like a nozzle issue and not a pop issue. 

 

I had cheap DSS 7x.014 injectors set at 340 bar with no issues of any kind. Actually improved cold starts. The DAP 7x.013's went straight in at 365 bar. All in the name of science and experimentation. No regrets! Well maybe a little...

3 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

If it's cranking and not firing there should be white smoke if fuel is getting injected. No white smoke means no fuel. 

 

Yep, agreed. And there is fuel when I crack the lines, cylinders 3, 4 and 5. Now, that doesn't mean the VP is building as much pressure as it should... but regardless, the problem is only below -20° C. And the truck drives great.

Edited December 28, 20177 yr by kzimmer

12 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

 

That's a very good question. I remember looking once and not seeing anything. Even when I finally get it running, there is very little smoke, at least no more than expected on an arctic temperature day.

 

Note: I did crack three injector lines on the 25th when I couldn't get it running. Plenty of fuel dumped out when I cranked. I don't think that fuel, or rather enough of it, is making it through the injectors.

 

You should have seen my 2003 Jetta TDI smoke when it started that morning. Made my dodge look like a prius.

In my experience, there's a pretty fine line between too much fuel and not enough fuel. 

When I had a VP and large injectors the truck would buck and knock blowing smoke everywhere until it hit 800rpms and was no longer calling for Chit loads of fuel. 

Now with a Ppump, I have to hit the throttle when it's cold to make it start (Otherwise it just turns over and no smoke out the pipe)

- BUT I can't give it too much or it won't even try to fire (just blows smoke)

Sounds like you're on the low side of fuel given the lack of smoke. Everything's too cold to get enough pressure built to fire the injectors.

1 minute ago, TFaoro said:

In my experience, there's a pretty fine line between too much fuel and not enough fuel. 

When I had a VP and large injectors the truck would buck and knock blowing smoke everywhere until it hit 800rpms and was no longer calling for Chit loads of fuel. 

Now with a Ppump, I have to hit the throttle when it's cold to make it start (Otherwise it just turns over and no smoke out the pipe)

- BUT I can't give it too much or it won't even try to fire (just blows smoke)

Sounds like you're on the low side of fuel given the lack of smoke. Everything's too cold to get enough pressure built to fire the injectors.

 

Good info and I agree 100%. I am really looking forward to finding out for sure.

16 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

 

I had cheap DSS 7x.014 injectors set at 340 bar with no issues of any kind. Actually improved cold starts. The DAP 7x.013's went straight in at 365 bar. All in the name of science and experimentation. No regrets! Well maybe a little...

 

Yep, agreed. And there is fuel when I crack the lines, cylinders 3, 4 and 5. Now, that doesn't mean the VP is building as much pressure as it should... but regardless, the problem is only below -20° C. And the truck drives great.

 

 

Ah, so replaced the entire injector. 

 

Watch it when it cranks, you should get white smoke if it's not firing. 

1 minute ago, AH64ID said:

 

 

Ah, so replaced the entire injector. 

 

Watch it when it cranks, you should get white smoke if it's not firing. 

 

Same bodies, I just swapped the nozzles and calibrated pop pressure.

Yea that thing should be smoking like a freight train if it is getting fuel to the injectors.  

1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

What do it do on a no start?  Does it just crank at normal speed without a sputter?  Any smoke out of the tailpipe?   have you do the park nose downhill to verify it isn't a fuel leak issue.

 

Given the size of injector the cranking fueling command will be WAY moire than enough to fire.  The flow from the 7 x .013's should be roughly 2x that of stock injectors at a given duration command.

 

Sorry I missed this post. Cranks at normal speed with not so much as a sputter. The odd time i'll get one single fire, on one cylinder. That's it, but i'm talking once, at the start of a 30 second crank. No smoke that I've noticed.

 

I know with the size of the injector and commanded fuel there there should be more than enough. I just don't think the injectors are popping properly. Maybe there is an underlying condition amplifying the magnitude of this problem (like a weak VP44). Or maybe, just maybe, nobody else was (dumb? adventurous? ambitious?) enough to try a 365 bar pop pressure at -25 to -30 Celsius. Lol.

I should be at 350 bar in a few weeks.  

 

However if you aren't getting any smoke then there is something else up.  The pump should be building a TON more pressure than 365 bar even during cranking.  I would expect white smoke and a lot of it.  

11 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I should be at 350 bar in a few weeks.  

 

However if you aren't getting any smoke then there is something else up.  The pump should be building a TON more pressure than 365 bar even during cranking.  I would expect white smoke and a lot of it.  

 

It'll be tough for you to recreate this though, as your area likely doesn't get this cold. I'm curious if you'll see any change in cold starts though.

I should be able to tell if if the 350 bar start harder than the 330 though at 0* ish.  

Have you run another tank through it yet?   rule out a bad batch of fuel?

I filled up yesterday with a fresh tank. Was at 1/8th. This morning I started it after it had sat for almost 4 hours and it took quite a bit of cranking. Also was plugged in. But again, once it was running, it was great. Drove around running errands today and it ran fine as always. Running the same fuel in my VW without issues.

 

I wanted to do some data logging today but I can't hook up anywhere, the pavement is too damn cold lol.

Edited December 29, 20177 yr by kzimmer

Was it making white smoke while you were cranking?

Wasn't watching, just listened from in the house, hit the remote start. But all of the other times I never noticed any smoke.

What’s the chance the remote start isn’t waiting long enough for the grids?

10 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

What’s the chance the remote start isn’t waiting long enough for the grids?

 

Extremely good chance. It only waits for 10 seconds. Not adjustable. But the truck was plugged in and usually only cycles for 10 seconds anyway. However all of the other times it was key crank and normal grid times, no remote start.

2 hours ago, kzimmer said:

 

Extremely good chance. It only waits for 10 seconds. Not adjustable. But the truck was plugged in and usually only cycles for 10 seconds anyway. However all of the other times it was key crank and normal grid times, no remote start.

 

Hmmm.... 

 

At those temps the fuel under hood should be warm, meaning the VP should have no issues compressing it but no white smoke means no fuel. 

 

Did you verify the pop on the injectors or just assemble them?

21 hours ago, AH64ID said:

 

Hmmm.... 

 

At those temps the fuel under hood should be warm, meaning the VP should have no issues compressing it but no white smoke means no fuel. 

 

Did you verify the pop on the injectors or just assemble them?

 

I set the pop pressure to 365 (ish) bar myself.

Could be a crank angle , cam position sensor going. My beast did this to me last winter in deep river. Minus 40 and my truck was plugged in for 6 hrs.

15 hours ago, dogsled said:

Could be a crank angle , cam position sensor going. My beast did this to me last winter in deep river. Minus 40 and my truck was plugged in for 6 hrs.

 

Negative. Always RPM on the tach when cranking, no CEL, and after it fires it runs great and starts great after immediately shutting off and restarting. 

 

I guess this is pretty old and I haven't updated. The issue got a little better after re-popping injectors to 330 bar from 365.

 

I had a couple small fuel leaks. The issue was (is) air in fuel. I replaced every single fuel line and fitting from tank sump to VP inlet. Introduced a much better pre-filter strategy before my Walbro pump to cut back on possible air.

 

It's much better now, but the longer it sits, the more I have to crank to start it, especially when cold (-32 celsius last night). Still a bit of air getting in, very slowly. Not enough to keep the truck down, but enough to piss me off.