Just got my 02 back from an extensive build from a local shop. The more I read about stacking, the dumber I seem to feel. The guy that writes the MM3 tunes for my shop recommended flashing the ecm with the mm3 tunes, and then putting in an Edge comp box through the data link to be able to "full field" the injection pump. Set up in this way, do these two work together? If they do, how can I set things up (things meaning wires lol) so that I can adjust both on the fly? Currently the edge is adjustable on the fly but to change levels with the mm3 I was told I would have to disconnect the edge and use the data link, then reconnect the edge when done. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little confused. Is the mm3 just a ECM flash without a wire tap? Are they able to override the built in fuel duration limits of the VP via the CAN bus, I didn't think that was possible.

Anyway that's a lot of money invested.

MM3 is only ecm tuning.  No wiretap.  

 

keep in mind the ecm supplies ~%75 of the fueling, wiretap can add ~%25 more.    

 

*** in most applications *** with proper injectors you don't really **need** wiretap unless you are really looking to wrap out RPMS. 

 

I ran the quadzilla on lvl 3 with my 7 x .012's and the he351ve turbo and it made PLENTY of power.

 

Edited April 22, 20204 yr by Me78569

Okay thanks for clearing that up. I was almost thinking they cracked the vp code and were reflashing the module on top of it.

Nope,   you can't do that unless you rewrite the vp44, the ecm, and the communication protocol they talk to each other on.     IE not gonna happen. 

 

 

Wrietap has a place, but it's need is GREATLY reduced with proper tuning and proper injectors.

Holy crap! 96° of duration... granted it takes a few degrees to open, but wow. 
 

CR’s cut the event around 30° ATDC regardless and I rarely use more than 30° of timing, especially down at 3200 rpms. 

yea it's nutso and easy to see why Smokey hot vp's where the norm.

 

big boy injectors + some decent tuning makes a big difference.

Wow, what a read, thanks you educated diesel nuts, I need a beer now...  

I don't think I'll survive well in this new thanshuman future of ours, way too much data, just need fishing, alcohol and sigars why can't I just do that... 

I'm sorry I get lost way too easy 

I like whiskey and cigars. 

Got a little clarification going through everything. The lines are 0.98. The injectors are 150s, I misspoke earlier thinking they were 125s. Removed the edge from the datalink and ran strictly the mm3 on the way in. I'm thinking the quadzilla is the next step, any advice and information on that would be great. Tried to take the acceleration video and my phone ended up riding to work on the floor?

On a side note, I took my gf for a ride for the first time and proceeded to give a raptor a reality check and she made this on her graphic design program thingy. Gonna have it made as a rear window sticker.

I would work more on the MM3 before going to a quad. You will lose some pretty good abilities with a Quad. 

agree'd you paid for the mm3 and tuning.  use it.    

 

I wouldn't suggest a mm3 over a quad, but since you already paid for it use it.  

 

A good tune with the mm3 should run well.    guessing ~450-475 hp worth of fuel.   I still suggest bigger injectors regardless of your tuning path.

Hmm. I'm more confused than ever. The truck put down close to 470hp on the dyno before we put any tuner or tuning to it. The shop said I was stupid for doing that (half jokingly) but I wanted to know what difference the modifications made on a strictly mechanical level out of curiosity. I haven't been back to the dyno since the mm3 and edge were installed because I was hoping to get it at least "street tuned" first. It's worth noting that the dyno runs before the tuners were done with the water methanol system on and running snow boost juice (49/51 I think?)

I recognize there's a moderate margin of error with any given dyno, so to be realistic I'd rather be on the safe side and subtract 50 hp from that number 

I'm sure at this point the groups collectively exhausted all patience with me, but I am grateful for your knowledge and am trying to learn.

Also, I don't know if this information is of any value or not, but according to the gauge and the snow controller, it made 43psi at 2200-ish rpm with the mm3 at level 1 and the edge at 1x1.

470 is a big number on stock tuning without boost fooling.  A lot of the power gained with tuning comes from preventing the ecm from defueling.   I would wager a guess that there was some sort of boost fooling out on.

 

150 hp rated injectors are generally good to 550 hp worth of fuel with heavy wiretap.  However hp ratings on injectors are useless.  Your injectors may be equal to other guys 175's or 200's.  Flow rates would tell that.

 

 

The advice stays the same though,

 

Ditch the edge and get it running well with the mm3.  If you want more power at that point then bigger injectors are in order.

 

 

 

I'm running strictly the mm3 right now and am taking notes for adjustments. It's definitely running cleaner but egts haven't notably changed I'm guessing due to the snow kit. I haven't seen anything higher than 1100 yet even when I had the edge still connected. 

In all likelihood you can get 95% of the power without dyno tuning, and you end up seeing more variables on the street. That’s assuming you don’t have unlimited dyno time. 
 

We don’t spend very much time at WOT, we spend a lot of time at partial throttle and that’s where street tuning makes a big difference.

So I would go thru a few tune revisions before getting back on the dyno. You may also find you don’t need to get on the dyno, but might be curious too.  
 

 

I would also turn the snow kit off for initial tuning. Get the MM3 tune setup for the motor/injectors and then work on a snow tune. 

 

Alrighty. We (me and the shop I'm going through) thought we had it pretty dialed in for a good test run (7hrs to Tennessee, then back to NWI two days later). I gave in and ran the edge in the stack on 1x1, I guess out of curiosity mostly, and partially a "see I told you so" possibility. The tuner from Motor Ops was very confident in the "dialing in" he'd done..... Running the mm3 on setting 2, and edge on 1x1 it did get great mileage. However, anytime merging back onto the interstate, passing etc etc, if tps exceeded 30-35% around 2000 rpm, the bucking was still vividly present. About an hour away, tps wouldn't drop below 13% (which btw is a lot of fun at 4am on twisty roads you've never been on while at the tail end of a 30hr stretch of being awake courtesy of work). I get to the destination, and shut it off. Next morning, I get p0121. Clear the code, truck only idles, CEL comes on. Remove negative leads from both batteries and come back an hour later. Perform apps reset procedure. Truck turns on, blip the throttle, yay I have revs, crap the CEL and code are back. Remove edge and datalink mm3 and try again. Success. Test drive success. Get on interstate, engage cruise, bam problem hits again. Clear the code, no apps reset, function returns. Drive 7 hours home, no issues. Let truck idle for 30 minutes before going back to work. Merge onto highway trying level 4 with mm3 only, CEL, same code, idle only, code won't clear. Am then told "it has to be something I did". K. Ordering a quadzilla, and putting the edge and mm3 in the garbage disposal (see what kind of power this new trash eater has lol). All of this is after Motor Ops "tuner" tech sells the mm3, disappears from work for 3 months,(rental car I have is 350 a week) truck is literally done,  just needs the tune. Tuner returns to earth, truck doesn't run right. Tuner says it's because we don't have a comp box to "full field" the injection pump. So cutting my losses with that line of bullshit thievery (all in all out 6700 bucks and a truck that only idles courtesy of motor ops), installing the quadzilla when it arrives, and I guess tuning it myself. Thank you all so much for all of your help and advice! It's scary to think what the outcome would have been had I not contacted this resourceful community.

That’s not a MM3 tuning problem, its a hardware issue. The quad won’t fix that. 

  On 4/27/2020 at 5:53 PM, AH64ID said:

That’s not a MM3 tuning problem, its a hardware issue. The quad won’t fix that. 

Yep, quad won't fix a hardware/sensor issue.  

 

Did it run good without the edge hardware installed?  

Hmm. My brain is really upside down now. Removed the mm3 tuning altogether and the comp box. Running the stock ecm file, but still have the mm3 in the obd2 to monitor parameters and see/clear codes if need be. The truck definitely runs smokey, but no bucking around 2000 rpm, and no tps codes... what am I missing?? and yes the truck ran cleaner and weaker with edge removed.

I've got to be missing something dead obvious if you're saying it's not a tuning issue. Literally the only "hardware" I touched was removing the edge. Software I just returned to the stock ecm file, and now those 2 issues are gone. Longest stretch for a reason I've ever made in my life but, could I have possibly inadvertently jostled a wire while removing the edge and such??

Does the edge plug into the apps signal anywhere?