Am I the only one who has a quad that makes the whole truck stumble, buck and shake like the VP is emptying when the throttle reaches the % you set max TPS to? I'll still have 10psi of fuel on the mechanical gauge right before the VP and after extensive test driving i worked out that if my throttle applied percentage equals or exceeds the max TPS it acts like the truck is running out of fuel. Lots of smoke ensues and it cuts out and bucks. I see 2.8.4 ADR is still the latest version. Am I the only one?

 

I'm running aggressive settings without min of 32% max of 40, 50, 60, and 65 as a final setting so the truck doesn't fall on its face. Boost scaling is 20psi, 2100ms (it stumbles and does the same out of fuel fit if I use 2200ms), 150% fueling from 6psi on up.

 

200hp f1 injectors 

62/68 .70ar

475/96/1.32

New Industrial Injection SO VP

New head gasket and no boost leaks, makes 60psi max. On the street 42psi is usually the most I see because I can't play in overdrive without speeding.

Airdog 4g 200 with sump and full gas tank.  New filter and water seperator.

 

I have a drive pressure gauge, s475 boost gauge and an overall boost gauge. Drive is 2-3psi less than boost until 60psi has been sustained for a few seconds, then drive climbs to 80psi eventually (on a 100mph pull).

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by rogerash0

If I put 14.2v to the pump I'll see 20-22psi out of it. It's almost like I need to get more voltage to the dang thing. I gave up with AD customer support many years ago. For many years I've wondered if my AD100 pump that never dropped in pressure would maintain pressure on the truck. Lavon told me it would probably work just as good and just the same as the AD165. I definitely believe him. I've just had so many diesel baths by now that I'm hard pressed to deal with it, but then again its been awhile.

Yep set your pump low scale psi to 10 psi to keep wiretap off until that psi.  Leave the tps settings 0 for min and 100 for max.

 

That just shifts the wiretap map up related to psi but still leaves a smooth curve that is not compressed.

I was thinking that very same thing, but didnt wanna bug ya to verify. I thought so...

You might also set your min wiretap % down to 0 from 50.  You have more than enough injector to not need wiretap to make up the meat of your power.

 

Wiretap is really good at extending fueling at 2500+ rpm.  Canbus fuel + injectors is good at making the meat of the curve.

I dont see much difference between the 13.6 or the 14.2 on mine, maybe 1 psi. Something else going there just wish l knew what. I have only dealt with customer srrvice twice with AD and that was for 2 blown pumps. They just sent new pumps both times and only question was where to send it. I hope the new 4g 165 is better yhan the last 2. Got about 4.5 years out of both. Bad cutomer service sucks.

Ill try taking the 50% mininum down to 0%, but I might find that it gives up too much torque. If I use min pump tap boost, when Im ready for wiretap, I want all the wire tap she has (50% on up). These 200hp injectors are CLEAN burning. Maybe if I can ever use more pedal to get more canbus fueling I can scale back wire tap.

 

These 200hp injectors burn completely clean when Im full steam ahead.

the 220hp injectors had a very slight haze at full steam.

 

AD tried to have good customer service, but it seems like the product is failed somewhere. 

 

Jacob Bayes said on here that the pumps return too much fuel and to crimp the return line, and I bought a radiator hose crimper from harbor fright to do that, I would but my return line is kinda old and I might break it if I do that. However, I do have new line in the garage to run a new return line. I've often wondered if seriously restricting the return line would help, but that seems risky in terms of hurting the VP. Either way, my fuel pressure shouldnt be down to 9-10psi at idle after the truck has heated up. I just went and started it again now, after its been sitting for 2 hours, after my 15 minute drive home from work, and fuel pressure was still 10-11 psi fluctuating. Tomorrow morning it will be just like this morning, 15-16psi. I'd record it and post it here if it were easier.

If you want more offidle fuel adjust your canbus curve until you are happy, i sound like a broken record but wiretap is really good at 2500+ rpm canbus is good offidle

 

Tune the canbus curve so at wot you are happy with torque.  When you are done with that then add in wiretap to fill the voids

Still running my 4G AirDog 165 on the 2G AirDog 150 filter base no issues. Only drop my typical 2 to 3 PSI. Been the same from Stock injectors to 150 HP injectors. @rogerash0 on the other hand has a bit more injector than me and most likely a lower pop pressure. Like my economy tune I want the wire tap on top not at the launch. This allows me to get past the torque management and when I hit 3rd gear it unlocks torque management and the wire tap stacks on after the turbos are spun up and it continues to push down the pavement quickly. My wiretap is after 15 PSI so the whole bottom end is just CANBus fuel with a max of mere 120%. I can still reach 100% CANBus fueling with this just takes more pedal and just a bit more time. Now where the wire tap is dropped in is what makes the boost of power. 

Honestly Im happy with how the canbus runs at 150% across the board (altho its a tad smokey), but I cant do that because then I cant use all the pedal to get the most canbus fueling at 40-50% throttle on up. I feel like scaling canbus back is the solution your giving me so that I can use all the pedal and effectively get more fuel from the canbus. Seems a.s.s. backwards to me, when Im trying to get the most fuel out of the system that I can, cause as you saw in the videos shes running clean as a whistle. If I set the fueling to max I'm kinda getting a kick in the pants with this canbus fueling to 2500 or what not, just bc Im not using all the pedal. If I still had my smarty I would have stacked it by now.

 

Bottom line: why does the quad not give me all the fuel when I set it to kill? talk about a big run around to try to reach max performance; yes I know thats not gonna be max driveability but thats not my #1 concern right now, thats my #2 concern. I have a Honda civic for driveability. I have the dodge for fun.

Edited July 7, 20204 yr by rogerash0

Add the engine load to your display or the fueling number. Watch the engine load to see if you reach 100% when you want. Or... Watch the fueling number to reach 4095 which is max commanded canbus fuel. Also remember more fuel typically requires more timing might look over your timing set up as well. 

 

Smarty stack is not suggested or recommended by us or Quadzilla Power.  All your going to do is make the throttle a light switch.  Horrible idea...  

 

Even with my truck I can get the tires to break free with as little as 1,700us of wiretap and reaching 150% CanBus at 26 to 30 PSI of boost. Just dumping 100% fuel right out of the hole is just flooding out the turbo and won't burn. When the fuel map is configured right you should see a small bit of smoke but by that time turbo should be well on its way to being fully spooled and then wiretap should kick in just a split second later. Mine is rather mean from light to light by 3rd gear the rear tires are typically smoking.  I think your trying to drop too much fuel in and it choking to death on fuel and cant get spooled fast enough. 

I understand what you're saying; that's the same verbiage, methodology, and recommendations you've been promoting on this site since I first arrived like 5-7 years ago. Which I agree with for the most part, but watch the video and listen to the truck, its hardly flooding with fuel. You can listen to the spool and tell by how it comes on that its smooth, plus there's almost no smoke, on a heat soaked motor in the middle of summer no less.

 

Scaling back the fueling to get more fueling (by using more pedal) is what I got out of this so far.

Edited July 7, 20204 yr by rogerash0

Something is not right. The only thing I can think of from here is try with @Me78569 and / or @Quadzilla Power...

Setting to 150% from 0-30 psi will give you %100 duration.  It will likely give you that at %40 throttle.  

 

Issue is there is no %105 duration.  So once you max out duration there is no where to go.   

 

Most guys dont want their tune to just fuel 100% when they snap the throttle to wot.  Rpms and boost should both be at the right place in the map to command peak duration.  You can tune how you like.

 

If you dont see %100 duration at %150 across the board then you have something else up.  The quad is just mutplying the stock fueling message

 A stock truck at 15 psi at 2000 rpm with a canbus setting of %120 will max duration.

 

 

Like i said before you map sensor looks lazy and your ecm is not fueling like a normal truck.  You tune wasnt great to starts but i am nearly positive something else is up.

6 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

Like i said before you map sensor looks lazy

Now that could be seen by watch mechanical boost gauge vs MAP sensor pressure of the Quadzilla. 

 

7 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

your ecm is not fueling like a normal truck.

Possibly the Smarty left a glitch behind? 

 

8 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

The quad is just mutplying the stock fueling message

Exactly. 

 

So if you set it for 150% and engine load is 50% then Quadzilla multiply 50% x 150% = 75%. All the Quadzilla is doing is grabbing the fuel message multiply it by the set fuel number and then result is the new CANBus fuel message for the VP44. The VP44 can only go to 4095 fueling value (or 100% engine load). Once that is hit CANBus is done can't go any farther. This is where the wiretap can push a bit farther over the top. Adding 1,200us to 2,200us worth of pulse on top. Like @Me78569 pointed out to me long time ago you can reach 100% fuel with mere 120% CANBus, which is very true. My Economy tune only goes to 123% and max'ed out the CANBus.

 

13 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

You tune wasnt great to starts but i am nearly positive something else is up.

That's my thought too. Just can't quite figure out what is missing in this either. Shouldn't have to max everything out with 220 HP injectors and twin turbos.

The datalog showed max boost of ~30 psi at 2500+ rpm. Boost didnt start to come up from 0 until 1800 rpms. 

 

I dont think the map sensor is working right.  I would expect 50+ psi on a %50 tps pull witht he old tune 

 

I need to make a video of the 3 manual boost gauges I have just for grins.. but long story short, I have a hard time making over 40psi of boost if Im not in overdrive. It has to do with the stock stall TC, and my very small 235/70 or 75 r16 snow tires. When I put on my 35" toyo MT tires I suspect I will be able to build a lot more boost, much more easily.

 

I think in the video I said I made a max boost on the mechanical gauge of 40 or 42psi. That's probably not right, but I want to say its 7-10psi higher than the datalog reflects.

 

I'll get a new genuine Cummins map sensor off XDP for $74 and some change. That's the lowest price I see by far. If its not a genuine Cummins sensor I dont want it.

 

 

Edited July 8, 20204 yr by rogerash0

another point to make for the wot vs %50 throttle is since the quad is using the oem fueling message and multiplying if your tune is setup at %150 across the board the ecm never fuels hard because it doesn't see high throttle input.  your tune still adds a ton of fuel on top but if you are wrapping out rpms to 3k rpms at %50 throttle the ecm is only going to be giving you ~ %25 duration because it's maps look at rpm, tps, and boost.   where as if you are at %100 throttle 3k rpms the ecm is going to be giving you 50-%75 duration.  

 

even with a stock stall coverter I would expect to see more boost than I see in your datalogs.   I've been in 62/75 trucks before and even at 8k' elevation they were building 30+ psi at 3k.

 

here you are at %50 duration at 2k rpm and only building 3 psi of boost.  that is the sweet spot for a VP you should be making 20+ psi with your fuel and air.    

 

 

 

 

I am guessing your truck doesn't have 3rd gear lockup?   Is your converter able to load the engine enough to build boost?   

 

 

I just did a few pulls. At 2800rpm its making 35-38psi on the mechanical gauge. I'll bet you $20 at 2k rpm its making 10-12psi absolute minimum.

 

I took your tune and turned wire tap mininum fueling to 0% like we talked about. I scaled back the fueling table bc it was driving real different besides more torque from more timing. It felt smooth and good with the higher timing, not jolty like it used to if took my foot out of the pedal quickly. Then again I wasn't doing a monster pull. More will be seen there in the future.

 

He's the fueling table and you can see in the second pic that on a 35psi pull from 0 to 60mph with the throttle at 50% that my canbus was low at 1209. It was tricky to stay in it and get this screenshot .

 

Fuel pressure was 19-20psi at idle this morning.

 

It looks to me like I need to make my max fueling closer to 125% to use more tps input. On the old 220hp injectors I always ran a max of 130% bc i noticed it didn't fuel any harder or better if I set it higher than that.

Can you data log a 3rd gear 1500 rpm to od pull?   WOT?  

 

I would expect your setup to make 60+ psi on a 0-60 pull.   

Yeah if it not making boost pressure seen by the Quadzilla then the fuel map will remain limited. 

 

9 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I would expect your setup to make 60+ psi on a 0-60 pull. 

Exactly what I would be expecting too. At least 50 to 60 PSI of boost.

 

Even my smaller set up 7 x 0.010 injectors I still can hit 47 to 49 PSI of max boost. Just with my small 60/60/12 turbo. I would have to agree with @Me78569 and look at the MAP sensor. It should follow the mechanical gauge closely till about 25 to 30 PSI then it tend to wonder. Data logs on my Quadzilla show me reaching 69 PSI of boost... But mechanical gauge stops at about 47 to 49 PSI. This shows my upper end error of my sensor but I'm not worried. In your case the sensor is most likely short on signal which is limiting your ability to build boost.