Fuel lubricity

[diesel4life]

Even 2% bio improves the HFRR of untreated fuel nearly 2 and a half times more than 2 cycle oil. Ever since my local fuel station started carrying B5 I don't even bother with a lubricant. In the winter time I will use Schaeffers diesel treat (winter blend) as a precaution, the last two winters here have been much colder than average and there were a few days over the course of the winter that I saw trucks pulled off on the side of the road. I suggested to my foreman we dose the fuel tanks on our cranes but he didn't see a need for it. One morning we came in it was -38F and the filters plugged solid upon start up. Cost us about 6 hours in the middle of a shutdown.

After that fiasco, he gave me a company credit card and sent me shopping.

Edited July 18, 2015 by diesel4life

[Vais01]

I have not noticed a difference as of yet, but have not towed using bio that i remember. I have to tow from Augusta Ga to Muscle Shoals Al in a week or two and we shall see.

Be safe on your trip and let us know if you see any differences.

[Vais01]

Even 2% bio improves the HFRR of untreated fuel nearly 2 and a half times more than 2 cycle oil. Ever since my local fuel station started carrying B5 I don't even bother with a lubricant. In the winter time I will use Schaeffers diesel treat (winter blend) as a precaution, the last two winters here have been much colder than average and there were a few days over the course of the winter that I saw trucks pulled off on the side of the road. I suggested to my foreman we dose the fuel tanks on our cranes but he didn't see a need for it. One morning we came in it was -38F and the filters plugged solid upon start up. Cost us about 6 hours in the middle of a shutdown.

After that fiasco, he gave me a company credit card and sent me shopping.

-38 is definitely cold for me I'm sure the crane was frozen solid. This is the exact reason I still run ADI fuel additive and the additional 16 Oz of 2 stroke oil for lubricity.

[dripley]

I finally made my trip with the RV in tow. Only problem was when I stopped in GA to fill up they had straight #2. It appears Loves does not use the bio blend in GA. Anyway I made the trip differently than I normally would. I drove 65 all the way in 5th instead of using OD. My mileage worked out to 10.15 mpg, about the same as I would have seen using OD. The biggest difference I experienced was a drop in trans temp from 215* in OD versus 195* in 5th. It also took near 100 miles for it to creep up to that temp and level off. Maybe next time I will get to used bio to see if there is any difference. I did use 2 stroke in the tank, about 33 oz's.

 The weird thing happened on the way to AL from home empty. I stopped in Charleston TN at a Loves and this one had BIO BLEND and not BIO MASS. I have read enough to know there is a difference, but little enough to quite understand it. They seem to over lap somewhat, but are definitely labeled differently. I drove from Charleston TN to Muscle Shoals AL and then from Muscle shoals to Thomson GA for a total 660 miles. I drove 5% city, 35% at 65 to 70 mph, and 60% at 75 to 80 mph. This is pretty normal driving for me. I put in 33.5 gallons and at 660 miles the mileage came up to 19.7 mpg. I have never seen that kind of mileage without driving 65 or less which is very abnormal for me. This was weird and had I not been there myself I would call BS on myself. I am going to try a duplicate the trip soon and check my odo to the mile markers and see how closely they match. I check it in 50 or 100 mile increments. The last time I checked, a few years ago, it was off by 1/2 of 1%, .005%. Nothing else is different on the truck other than the fuel. May be a fluke I don't know. The truck does run quieter.

[Vais01]

I finally made my trip with the RV in tow. Only problem was when I stopped in GA to fill up they had straight #2. It appears Loves does not use the bio blend in GA. Anyway I made the trip differently than I normally would. I drove 65 all the way in 5th instead of using OD. My mileage worked out to 10.15 mpg, about the same as I would have seen using OD. The biggest difference I experienced was a drop in trans temp from 215* in OD versus 195* in 5th. It also took near 100 miles for it to creep up to that temp and level off. Maybe next time I will get to used bio to see if there is any difference. I did use 2 stroke in the tank, about 33 oz's.

The weird thing happened on the way to AL from home empty. I stopped in Charleston TN at a Loves and this one had BIO BLEND and not BIO MASS. I have read enough to know there is a difference, but little enough to quite understand it. They seem to over lap somewhat, but are definitely labeled differently. I drove from Charleston TN to Muscle Shoals AL and then from Muscle shoals to Thomson GA for a total 660 miles. I drove 5% city, 35% at 65 to 70 mph, and 60% at 75 to 80 mph. This is pretty normal driving for me. I put in 33.5 gallons and at 660 miles the mileage came up to 19.7 mpg. I have never seen that kind of mileage without driving 65 or less which is very abnormal for me. This was weird and had I not been there myself I would call BS on myself. I am going to try a duplicate the trip soon and check my odo to the mile markers and see how closely they match. I check it in 50 or 100 mile increments. The last time I checked, a few years ago, it was off by 1/2 of 1%, .005%. Nothing else is different on the truck other than the fuel. May be a fluke I don't know. The truck does run quieter.

Good info. Thanks for the update.

[Vais01]

I am officially on 2 tanks of TC-W3 2 stroke oil. The truck is running great and the injection system is quieter.

[JAG1]

2 stroke is good insurance against bad fuels too. I've been doing it for many years starting out with using new clean motor oil many years ago and noticed a difference against the new fuel they are refining. I also got a card that allows fueling at the commercial cardlock places. That fuel is noticeably better qualitry also.

It's unbelievable how Epa is unconcerned with score values in diesel. I would think they would want diesel vehicles to last longer given the amount of energy to produce everything associated with them.

[CSM]

2 stroke is good insurance against bad fuels too. I've been doing it for many years starting out with using new clean motor oil many years ago and noticed a difference against the new fuel they are refining. I also got a card that allows fueling at the commercial cardlock places. That fuel is noticeably better qualitry also.

It's unbelievable how Epa is unconcerned with score values in diesel. I would think they would want diesel vehicles to last longer given the amount of energy to produce everything associated with them.

 

It isn't about the environment, it hasn't been since the 70s...  If it was event then!  It is about growing control, money and power for the Agency.  

[JAG1]

I agree, every band aid they require costs more money to everyone. Higher truck cost, lower mileages, more engine wear, all guarantees manufacturers, refiners and parts counters greater profits to collect tax on profits.

[diesel4life]

The SCR equipped trucks are every bit of 1500-2000 lbs heavier than the 2nd gens, put out twice the torque, provide very similar mpg running empty and will return better towing mpg than a 2nd gen...and does so at emissions levels that rival todays gasoline engine. If that's not progress, Im not sure what is!

Sure there are people in power in the EPA that have questionable ethics and motives but the same could be said for every entity whether it be the government or private sector. But the truth is the EPA has cleaned our country up immensely over the last 50 years. I've never lived in a big city but those that have and can remember all the smog warnings and acid rains of the 70s and 80s can attest to that. School systems had to watch the smog forecast to decide whether or not to let kids out for recess everyday! Imagine that!! Remember when the Cuyahoga River burned? (It burned countless times during the 50's-60's). Ive fished in the Cuyahoga several times over the years, thanks to the 10 year dredging project in the 90's.

Alot has changed since those days, and personally I think it's for the better!! But that's just me.

[diesel4life]

I agree, every band aid they require costs more money to everyone. Higher truck cost, lower mileages, more engine wear, all guarantees manufacturers, refiners and parts counters greater profits to collect tax on profits.

Current OCI on the Cummins is double what ours is....I'd say Cummins disagrees with your statement. Not trying to pick an argument here guys but without the EPA where would we be? (Take a CLOSE look at China with their recent industrial boom and lack of regulations and what has been going on over there to get an idea)

[Vais01]

The SCR equipped trucks are every bit of 1500-2000 lbs heavier than the 2nd gens, put out twice the torque, provide very similar mpg running empty and will return better towing mpg than a 2nd gen...and does so at emissions levels that rival todays gasoline engine. If that's not progress, Im not sure what is!

Sure there are people in power in the EPA that have questionable ethics and motives but the same could be said for every entity whether it be the government or private sector. But the truth is the EPA has cleaned our country up immensely over the last 50 years. I've never lived in a big city but those that have and can remember all the smog warnings and acid rains of the 70s and 80s can attest to that. School systems had to watch the smog forecast to decide whether or not to let kids out for recess everyday! Imagine that!! Remember when the Cuyahoga River burned? (It burned countless times during the 50's-60's). Ive fished in the Cuyahoga several times over the years, thanks to the 10 year dredging project in the 90's.

Alot has changed since those days, and personally I think it's for the better!! But that's just me.

Let's keep political and environmental out of this particular topic. Fuel lubricity does help with emissions factors but this not the root of this subject.

[Vais01]

Current OCI on the Cummins is double what ours is....I'd say Cummins disagrees with your statement. Not trying to pick an argument here guys but without the EPA where would we be? (Take a CLOSE look at China with their recent industrial boom and lack of regulations and what has been going on over there to get an idea)

Regulation from federally funded private agencies did not cause the OCI levels to become extended the engine manufacturers associations did using oil analysis.

Now back to fuel lubricity.

[Vais01]

Has anyone with a second gen VP44 injected trucks ran Biodiesel blends higher than 10% with any issues?

[diesel4life]

Regulation from federally funded private agencies did not cause the OCI levels to become extended the engine manufacturers associations did using oil analysis.

Now back to fuel lubricity.

Correct, due to the cleaniness of the combustion of the engine which is contrary to the statement about engine wear. SCR trucks are cleaner and more efficient inside and out than our VP trucks could ever be.

To the OP, nothing politically motivated about any of my comments. The EPA has driven the fuel standards we use today so its all relevant. You just brought up another question regarding a govt mandated policy so don't be disappointed when another "politically" related discussion surfaces.

Edited August 24, 2015 by diesel4life

[JAG1]

You know you'll hear loads of different things on any forum. I once read about a VP44 rebuilder that while working hands on in the shop discovered that biodiesel was one major factor as to why VP's give up mechanically.

Wouldn't it be better expressed by not blaming biodiesel fuel and instead blame a lack of good filtration?

[diesel4life]

Material compatibility (particularly rubber hoses), oil dilution,corrosion, filter plugging, decreased fuel mileage are all potential drawbacks associated with running higher blends of bio. Not to mention the higher the concentration the more prone the fuel is to mishandling at the terminal and fuel stations. I think I mentioned before I run B5 from a trusted station but am very hesitant to run anything more than that especially from an unknown source.

[dripley]

Has anyone with a second gen VP44 injected trucks ran Biodiesel blends higher than 10% with any issues?

I have run some B-5 but mostly B-15 and 20 for the past 8k miles with no ill effects. Matter of fact some fuel economy increase. I did add an Edge comp about the same time so not sure what effect this has had on the mileage. I ran a tank of this while back and got one of the best tanks mileage wise ever.  I still ran 16oz's of 2 stroke with the B5 and the B15. The B20 and this stuff run quieter than straight #2 and 2 stroke.I have only been running the bio this spring and summer, not sure about winter. So far no ill effects. I hope I am not screwing anything up because I am seeing more and more Bio almost everywhere i have been in the past 8 months. It is getting more prevalent.  

 

 

 

I guess I should add this. Many years ago when ethanol was first being pushed I thought that anything to get us of the arab teat had to be good. Since it has become so prevalent and the true cost is apparent I am against it. Every time you go to the grocery store you pay for it. I think the negatives outway the positives. That being said, I hope this is not as true for the Bio diesel. I know some of it comes from waste products, soy beans and such. I am not sure how these items effect any thing else. I need to do some more research. I would hate to find out it is no different in those respects because I would have to rethink using. We might not have much choice seeing that is being sold in more and more places. Plus me and the truck like it so far. 

Edited August 24, 2015 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

Still no matter what is lower in BTU content... Not by much but petroleum diesel is the top of the BTU list and petroluem gasoline is top of the gasoline BTU list.

[Vais01]

Material compatibility (particularly rubber hoses), oil dilution,corrosion, filter plugging, decreased fuel mileage are all potential drawbacks associated with running higher blends of bio. Not to mention the higher the concentration the more prone the fuel is to mishandling at the terminal and fuel stations. I think I mentioned before I run B5 from a trusted station but am very hesitant to run anything more than that especially from an unknown source.

Oil dilution with fuel is caused by injectors not due to biodiesel. Fuel economy reduction is minor to none in some vehicles. Filter plugging is only an issue in winter not summer and also when filters can not be heated or ani-gel additives have not been added.

Now mishandling is from splash mixing which is a practice avoided now due to hazards. The additives and biodiesel are added and mixed in the piping and pumped into the truck.

After several PDF and procedural documents I have learned that there is just too much misinformation floating the net.