PS cooler

[TFaoro]

So as some of you know I've been through 4 or so power steering pumps (All napa warrantied) 

The pumps work fine for about a month or so until it starts to moan a bit. I don't have any issues with steering (same effort as before) brakes work very well too, so I don't think there's a restriction anywhere in the lines. I can tell you my hydroboost pressure lines are on fire though (not sure about steering box line.) They'll literally burn you after running for 30 min or more. After about a month the fluid starts to smell very burned and the moaning starts. I'm wondering if a cooler like the 3rd gen trucks have might up the capacity and keep all of the fluid cooler. Maybe if the oil isn't being overheated it won't moan after a month of use.

For those wondering I've flushed the system with at least 3-4 quarts every time I've changed the pump. 

[IBMobile]

I see power steering fluid coolers on all types of vehicles.  It can't hurt .  I know that the power steering high pressure line right after the p/s pump can get so hot that I've gotten 2ed degree burns from leaning on it. 

check out these kits  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_21?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=power+steering+cooler+kit&sprefix=power+steering+cooler%2Cautomotive%2C216

[Mopar1973Man]

I would have to say you have a restriction somewhere. Mine never get that hot. It's warm to the touch <140*F. Now I have to ask what kind of fluid are you using?

Rather common for folks that ruin a pump to end up pumping debris into a small port somewhere causing a mild restriction. I would highly suggest you resolve the heat issue and not add a cooler till you figure it out. Because most likely you'll still ruin pumps with a flow restriction.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[TFaoro]

13 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

I see power steering fluid coolers on all types of vehicles.  It can't hurt .  I know that the power steering high pressure line right after the p/s pump can get so hot that I've gotten 2ed degree burns from leaning on it. 

check out these kits  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_21?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=power+steering+cooler+kit&sprefix=power+steering+cooler%2Cautomotive%2C216

Thanks for the link! I was seriously considering the factory automatic trans cooler. I know it's WAY overkill, but it sure would mount easy and look clean.

4 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I would have to say you have a restriction somewhere. Mine never get that hot. It's warm to the touch <150*F. Now I have to ask what kind of fluid are you using?

But everything works properly until the fluid is burned...

Just conventional oil.

[Mopar1973Man]

Fluid is getting burned because of excessive pumping or flow restrictions. Not using ATF are you?

Thing is you not running oversize tire or anything to add stress on the front axle so there should be any other reason but a flow restriction. The only way to add heat is to restrict flow. Also remember most all power steering pump do not have a true filter other than a screen. Again if the debris is already forced into maybe the hydroboost or gear box port and restricting flow then heat is going to be produced.

Kind of like saying you got a overheating issues with the engine instead of fixing the thermostat (restricting flow) your going to install a bigger radiator. I still say to find the restriction and the heat issue will vanish.

[TFaoro]

2 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Fluid is getting burned because of excessive pumping or flow restrictions. Not using ATF are you?

Thing is you not running oversize tire or anything to add stress on the front axle so there should be any other reason but a flow restriction. The only way to add heat is to restrict flow. Also remember most all power steering pump do not have a true filter other than a screen. Again if the debris is already forced into maybe the hydroboost or gear box port and restricting flow then heat is going to be produced.

Kind of like saying you got a overheating issues with the engine instead of fixing the thermostat (restricting flow) your going to install a bigger radiator. I still say to find the restriction and the heat issue will vanish.

No ATF. I believe it's Valvoline PS fluid. Not 100% on the brand though.

Tires are slightly larger than stock, but not enough to affect anything. (265/70/17)

Where would the restriction be if it all components hooked to it work properly? I know the steering box is getting old and worn though.

I see your point that it should be fine without, but they had to put one on the 3rd gens for a reason.....

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, TFaoro said:

Tires are slightly larger than stock, but not enough to affect anything. (265/70/17)

That is technically the same as 265/75 R16.

1 minute ago, TFaoro said:

Where would the restriction be if it all components hooked to it work properly?

Anywhere on the pressure side most likely.

 

1 minute ago, TFaoro said:

I know the steering box is getting old and worn though.

Gear box rebuild kits are about $40 bucks and can be done with most common hand tools. The "wear" can be adjusted out typically as long as no parts are damaged.

2 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

but they had to put one on the 3rd gens for a reason.....

Yeah because the 3rd Gen is running ATF and also have a heavier front axle weight vs the second gen body. Not to mention belt driven pumps vs. gear box driven. I know there is a RPM difference as well.

[TFaoro]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

That is technically the same as 265/75 R16.

Anywhere on the pressure side most likely.

 

Gear box rebuild kits are about $40 bucks and can be done with most common hand tools. The "wear" can be adjusted out typically as long as no parts are damaged.

Yeah because the 3rd Gen is running ATF and also have a heavier front axle weight vs the second gen body. Not to mention belt driven pumps vs. gear box driven. I know there is a RPM difference as well.

But with the brakes and steering working properly  there can't be much of a blockage. Certainly not enough to heat the temperature that much.

The only thing "bad" on the gearbox is the slop. I've tried adjusting it, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. It's still sealed fine though.

ATF doesn't start to burn until 300+deg and they still have a cooler. I'm likely going to try and take the whole system completely apart and add a cooler while I'm at it. What can I take apart on the hydroboost system?? I can pull the gearbox apart easily enough.

[Mopar1973Man]

There is two adjustments on the gear box one adjustment you can do on the vehicle. The other you need to remove the gear box to adjust the bearing preload. The adjustment you most likely did was the over center adjustment which is the jam nut and the Allen stud. The bearing pre-load is the red collar in the picture which you have to remove the gear box to do properly.

Some rebuild kits will have the bearings for the output shaft.

Not much in a gear box.

[CSM]

What about the basket on the line going into the box?  isn't there a screen there?  Could that be filled with crap or perhaps that ball/slot thing isn't aligned properly?

[IBMobile]

The only way to really know what's going on in the Steering/hydro boost system is to put a pressure gauge on the pump and see what the pressures are when in operation.  This video may help.

                         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9rgkZ_R-Mc

[Mopar1973Man]

Again in the video high pressures will cause the pump to burn up. So restriction...

[Haggar]

The "restriction" may be the pump's pressure relief valve/regulator itself.  In my construction equipment, and the hydraulic systems here at work, I see the fastest temperature rise in hydraulic oil when the system has to use its relief system.  That vents the highest flow through the smallest orifice.

While I have yet to see some of the troubles many of you guys have, I have been watching threads like this and developing a theory I need to investigate. 

Years ago, the instructions in a replacement pump told you to KEEP the pressure regulator from the old pump you were replacing.  So basically, the regulators were vehicle specific (flow/pressures).  The 2001 FSM shows a difference in flow for the PS unit  for the vehicles that were equipped with hydroboost brakes vs the vacuum boost vehicles.  (I hardly doubt the re-builders keep up with this nowadays....) 

Since I have not researched it, I am not sure if they did this through pressure relief, or actual pump flow rate (different housing and vane width).   Most of our trucks have had this stuff swapped already so trying to develop the actual base line is going to be hard.  

I would love to get my hands on the tool for testing ( the 6815)....  May have to build one myself.  We could develop a flow/head curve for the system.

In a skinny second, add a cooler!  Many of the GM vehicles in the 60s and 70s with heavier engines got small power steering coolers. (I noticed them on the Toronados, Eldorado's Grand Prix and Riveras a lot.)  I have also noticed many newer cars will loop an extra 3' to 4' of tubing going to the hard lines on the rack and pinion. 

[Mopar1973Man]

11 minutes ago, Haggar said:

In a skinny second, add a cooler!

I still say fix the issue. Why is it people like me can drive 2 hours get out grab the line in it just mildly warm? I still say there is a restriction creating the heater where I'm not sure. As for when I'm going to bet that the first pump failure ejected debris into the system and it's still there hence why you frying pump yet. Remove the debris the heat is will go away.

11 minutes ago, Haggar said:

In a skinny second, add a cooler!  Many of the GM vehicles in the 60s and 70s with heavier engines got small power steering coolers. (I noticed them on the Toronados, Eldorado's Grand Prix and Riveras a lot.)  I have also noticed many newer cars will loop an extra 3' to 4' of tubing going to the hard lines on the rack and pinion. 

I've seen the same thing too. Ford was really known for issues for heating up the power steering being they typically ran ATF vs. power steering fluid like Dodge did for years and very, very, rarely in a few heavy duty series did Dodge add a cooler to the power steering. From all the Dodge vehicles I've owned including a Dodge motorhome Class C none of my vehicles had a power steering cooler. Same old pump and saginaw gear box.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Mopar1973Man