Stacking boxes

[dodgedieselnewbie]

As you may or may not know.. I traded my comp box for a smarty. I am happy with how the smarty works for daily driving but miss the get up and go of the comp. So.. I'm thinking about picking up another comp box and trying a stack. What do I need to know? I know about running the smarty on even numbers. What would be decent settings to run both together? Is it hard on things? 

[CSM]

Don't do burnouts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dodgedieselnewbie]

Lol.. I read your thread. Sorry about your luck! 

 

 

[CSM]

In all seriousness though, I ran that stack for a while.  Not a bad stack.  You get the timing from the Edge and fuel from both.  I never got a tune I loved, but it was fast.  The on the fly tuning of the comp was nice if I decided to get crazy, or if I needed a softer touch for towing or slow moving traffic.  

 

Settings really depend on your setup and taste.  All I can say is experiment, and start with the torque management settings at 1 or 2 at the most.  Then, once you get something you like, you can try raising the torque management in the smarty.  make sure to run no timing from the smarty.

 

Any tuner is hard on things.  How hot you get it, how much boost you run, etc, will dictate how much pain you put into the system.  If you're just looking for a bit more speed up top (which I understand) then i would probably run the Smarty on a mid level even number, and the Comp on 3-4 with the fueling adjusted to the desired haze level.  With 50hp injectors, you will max out the fuel of those injectors with that stack.  If you have enough air, you will just reach a hazy point of diminishing returns... if you don't have enough air for that amount of fuel, then it will get slower, smokier, and hotter.  I don't like being above the clean point of diminishing returns, as I am choked by my injectors and likely asking the VP to push way more fuel at higher pressure than it normally does.  

 

ETA; I did read online somewhere that the torque limit of the Dana 70 is 1750ft lb continuous.  That means that if your engine is putting out 714 ft lb in first gear, you are at that limitation and you are hugely reducing the lifespan of the axle.  Thats only 244 hp at 1800 RPM if the truck is static and trying to get a trailer started (or do a burnout).  So, after my experience, getting heavy loads started fast with the tuners is bad juju.  My axle was abused prior to me getting it, but I also towed hard and though I kept it under 25psi, I still think I did some of the damage.  Max rated momentary torque is up near 7000 ft lb.  Note, torque breaks parts.  not horsepower. The lower the RPM, the harder it is on things for a given horsepower.

Edited April 13, 2016 by CSM

[dodgedieselnewbie]

So.. I'll likely need larger injectors and turbo? 

 

Can I get more up top get up and go without the comp? Meaning.. would a different turbo and injectors do the trick?

[CSM]

5 minutes ago, dodgedieselnewbie said:

So.. I'll likely need larger injectors and turbo? 

 

Can I get more up top get up and go without the comp? Meaning.. would a different turbo and injectors do the trick?

 

Don't get me wrong, the comp will get you more top end with what you got.  I am just talking about where I like to tune the comp / smarty stack to...  That is the technique I use to find my "happy spot."

 

My technique is different when using the Smarty for timing or something that I can directly adjust the timing.  With the comp, as the levels go up, the fuel and timing increase. You increase the rate of the fuel increase with the sublevel.

Edited April 13, 2016 by CSM

[dodgedieselnewbie]

I understand.. I just wanted to know if I can achieve more top end without the comp. I don't know if the wire tap puts unnecessary stress on the vp.

 

Right now I'm running smarty on sw9 and I think torque 2 or 3 with timing on 4 and duration on 5. I get little to no smoke. This leads me to believe I could possibly go a little larger with injectors.. maybe 90s? 

 

I would imagine with the stack I need to seriously consider studs too... 

[CSM]

9 minutes ago, dodgedieselnewbie said:

I understand.. I just wanted to know if I can achieve more top end without the comp. I don't know if the wire tap puts unnecessary stress on the vp.

 

Right now I'm running smarty on sw9 and I think torque 2 or 3 with timing on 4 and duration on 5. I get little to no smoke. This leads me to believe I could possibly go a little larger with injectors.. maybe 90s? 

 

I would imagine with the stack I need to seriously consider studs too... 

 

Well, you are reaching the limits of my generalities and experience... Without seeing your truck, it is hard to say.  It sure sounds like you have enough air, and bigger injectors wouldn't hurt you if it is all clean in theory.  I would want to pick some brains at ATS and a couple other vendors too... hopefully somebody else here will chime in.  I just don't have any experience with that turbo.  

 

Studs, in my opinion, are a definite need over 40psi.  Long towing and extended driving over 20-25psi will shorten the lifespan of the head gasket.  I think the main killer of head gaskets (generally) is poor coolant maintenance.  IF folks changed their coolant annually or even every other year, it would mean a lot less problems with the head gasket.  Studs don't hurt, but they aren't required for MOST singles.    

Edited April 13, 2016 by CSM

[dodgedieselnewbie]

Honestly.. I'm surprised too. I've read a lot of threads about smarty and smoke. I have to really stomp on the pedal to get some and it clears quickly. Even when I had the comp box.. 5x5 was about the same.... 

[TFaoro]

IMO the TST is the only box to stack with the smarty. 

Comp / smarty stack for me was a hot, smokey, lazy turd. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by TFaoro

[dodgedieselnewbie]

Hi Tyler. . What can you tell about the TST box? How does it differ from the comp? Are there any issues that come up running it? 

[CSM]

I'm a big tst fan as well.  The smarty tst stack is my favorite thus far.  Though, if smarty comes out with a 2nd gen  UDC for the touch this year it will probably eclipse the S03 smarty by a big margin.

[TFaoro]

2 hours ago, dodgedieselnewbie said:

Hi Tyler. . What can you tell about the TST box? How does it differ from the comp? Are there any issues that come up running it? 

Fuels smoother, doesn't have that big timing jump the comp does, and can be turned off to get great mpgs. I wouldn't go with the comp version though. It likes to surge like an MF with the comp version turned up at high RPMs. 

 

Although, I'm happier with the quad than the smarty / tst stack. That's likely because I'm running huge injectors though. 

[notlimah]

Who makes the TST box?

[CSM]

Tst products 

[notlimah]

that would make sense . . . .

 

[dripley]

10 hours ago, TFaoro said:

Fuels smoother, doesn't have that big timing jump the comp does, and can be turned off to get great mpgs. I wouldn't go with the comp version though. It likes to surge like an MF with the comp version turned up at high RPMs. 

 

Although, I'm happier with the quad than the smarty / tst stack. That's likely because I'm running huge injectors though. 

Just curious as to how high an rpm you turn and experience the surging. I personally dont go past the redline on the tach, on purpose anyway.

[TFaoro]

28 minutes ago, dripley said:

Just curious as to how high an rpm you turn and experience the surging. I personally dont go past the redline on the tach, on purpose anyway.

Anywhere above 2000 rpm with little throttle input. Having boost makes the comp try to fuel hard. When the throttle is light it fuels hard for a split second then stops because the throttle input is low, and that just repeats.