Cold weather starting problems

[WiscoRedkneck]

First off, Merry Christmas,  second off I would like to say thank you to TFAORO for helping me get the truck running while off grid in -10 degrees Fahrenheit I had a 10 mile ride on a wheeler just to get a form of cell reception then for Tyler to respond quickly was awesome .

 

So long short this is her first winter back on road 99 24 valve 5.9 4x4 auto with 320k on the clock basic mods and hybrid turbo, full frame off restoration...  because of that I'm not ruling anything out yet.

 

The facts 

Outside temp was -10 dropping to -14f blowing 20mph

Truck was plugged in on generator power for 6 hours tested for good voltage to find it present....

Oil weight 15w-40 dino 90 percent sure it mobil delvac

Use to run 10/30 but was advised against by parts store. I will get to this in a moment.

Fuel was treated and sample sitting on porch had not gelled

Truck was near impossible to start and once started oil pressure never came up I shut down after 6 seconds and tried again nothing.

Contacted Tyler removed injection pump wires(flipped dead man switch) and cranked 

Started once more and after 6 seconds I had oil pressure and truck went to 3 cylinder high idle

Where I got confused is this

Block heater even at that outside temp should maintain a block temp that doesn't cause the truck to go into high idle imho.

Now I tested heater continuity and got 21.9 ohms a bit high but still in range.

 

My questions are is 5w-40 synthetic ok/good fit for the truck it's expensive and I don't want to be wasteful, and will that remedy some of the cold start issues.

And what would you guys recommend for checking block heater and the grid heaters, I think that about covers it. 

I'm throwing in this video it's not my truck but my truck acted nearly identical just a little more difficult to start.

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by WiscoRedkneck

[Mopar1973Man]

There is a lot of factors that affect starting performance. Injectors, compression, valve lash, cetane number, grid heater performance. There is many more. I've done cold starts many times at -20F without much issues. I can explain better when I get home to keyboard.

[dripley]

Possibly the block heater is not working. I would think if it was plugged in for 6 hours the coolant would have been above freezing at least. Not sure what temp difference there is at -10. Did you happen to notice your coolant temp after starting? Were the grid heaters working? The link to the video didn't work. 

[WiscoRedkneck]

So super long story short motor was gone through by Cummins N power in Oak Creek(compression test, valve adjust and visual inspection of injectors because at the time I planned to replace with RV type.  The only issue was the turbo endplay was a bit sloppy so we stuck a new hybrid turbo on.... that was 5 years ago, now 4 years and 8 months ago I lost control and went sideways into a tree hard drivers side was destroyed but frame was straight.  Truck was restored/rebuilt,  put back on the road in July 

So at this point unless something was totally missed inside the motor by a shop that offers manufacturer warranty on rebuilds. my only concerns are block heater(tested at 21.9 ohms), oil weight, grid heaters and thank you Mike good point on the injectors and cetane.

 

I had power service and 2 stroke in the fuel at the time and feel there wasn't an issue there, but cetane levels are uncharted waters for me....

 

Oh and I will look into the link issue it works on my end maybe Mike could help a tech novice that seems to fail often on here with media 

[Mopar1973Man]

Like I'm at motel the last few nights with temps near zero. No block heater. No problems starting. Again compression and fine atomized fuel is important. Between floating between the motel and the hospital all I've done is cycle the grid heater once and start. No stumble or any issues. So what was the measured compression? Was the Injectors popped and flow matched at what pressure?

[Mopar1973Man]

At 5F above it fired right up no issue. High idle kicked in by its self and let it warm up to 100F worth of coolant which was like 3 or 4 Minutes. No block heater, just one cycle of the grid heater. Sad part my tablet was so cold it would turn on till it warmed up in the cab.

 

So again good compression and good atomized fuel is important. 

 

This is heat wave compared to back home at -20F to -30F.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

The video looked like mine starting at 15 above with no grids or being plugged in except mine hit on the second try. Had the grids been connected I would of expected to fire right off. The link was working this morning. 

[WiscoRedkneck]

all cylinders were between 370 and 400, the injectors have never been tested since I planned to replace them when I started building the truck but got into an accident so I never did. 

I will do a blowby pressure test today, but I will stick to my belief that there is an issue with the grid heaters or the injectors. In those Temps how long did your wait to start light take to go off?  Mine stays on for about 20 seconds and doesn't change much when cycling it more than once

Edited December 26, 2016 by WiscoRedkneck

[Me78569]

20 seconds is about right,  I am going to vote no / one grids also.  

 

that's about how mine starts at ~ - 30*f

Edited December 26, 2016 by Me78569

[WiscoRedkneck]

@Me78569 I don't quite understand the end of your post do you believe the grid heaters are part of the issue or no?

 

[Me78569]

Yes I would guess you either have no grids or one grid.  I am leaning towards 1 as your truck starts similar to how mine does when temps get down to -30

[WiscoRedkneck]

Okay thank you for the clarification, so we have a heat wave going right now so I plan to do a blowby pressure check and test the grid heaters.

Is it common for people to take one out? 

 

[Me78569]

There are 2 elements in the grid heater system, so you might have 1 bad relay, one bad trigger wire or one busted element in the housing.  

 

I would just do a quick check of the wiring to the relay, there should be 2 trigger wires going ot the housing.  Test both of them wiht a multimeter and see if they are both getting ~12v whent he WTS light is on.

[WiscoRedkneck]

@Me78569 I have fairly major issues regarding the grid heaters, 2 volts max and the wiring is definitely something that got messed with and messed up during the restoration.  To start all the rubber insulator caps were melted in place a few connections are corroded and somehow my headlights still dim when they try to kick in.

I am going to concentrate on this repair and then evaluate other things as I proceed, thank you for your help. 

[dripley]

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but if you had the truck plugged in for 6 hours and it still would not start, the block heater still has a problem. Even at -10 in 6 hours the heater should bring the block temp up near freezing. Mine will start with out the grids at 20+ mostly on the first turn of the key.

It is angry but it starts.

[Me78569]

agree that the block heater is also having issues.

[WiscoRedkneck]

Thanks for the help I'll figure it out

I know there is more than one problem 

The block heater ohmed out at 21.9 if you have another way to test the heater let me know otherwise I will just replace it. Book says if it's less than 25 ohms it's good so I don't understand what's up.

Then I will replace the grid relays and rewire the grids hoping it was done right to begin with after the restoration.

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by WiscoRedkneck

[WiscoRedkneck]

New solenoids have studs for four trigger wires and four main studs.

My old one had two open studs where trigger wires go is that correct or am I missing something like a jumper or another trigger wire?  Currently one is 12v+ the other shows ground on a meter.

[dripley]

On 12/27/2016 at 11:46 PM, WiscoRedkneck said:

Thanks for the help I'll figure it out

I know there is more than one problem 

The block heater ohmed out at 21.9 if you have another way to test the heater let me know otherwise I will just replace it. Book says if it's less than 25 ohms it's good so I don't understand what's up.

Then I will replace the grid relays and rewire the grids hoping it was done right to begin with after the restoration.

 

You might check where the plug wire connects to the block heater element. I have read of that connection going bad due moisture infiltration. I have never had to look mine to see if there is anything else. You might double check your power supply and cord to be sure there is not a problem with those. I dont know how many times I have had folks complain about no power on out temps services on my jobs for them to find out their cord is the problem.

[WiscoRedkneck]

I will look at the connection on the block side. Thank you

And where I was located at the time I was on generator power and the barn lights were on and my inline meter showed good voltage.  The cord was another story, the first one I used had a light up end that lit up but passed no voltage, the second cord did.  I carry a Klein tools voltage polarity tester all the time and confirm power and correct polarity to the cord when ever plugging in.