Cold weather starting problems

[LiveOak]

If oil viscosity is an issue, before I would go to a less viscous oil and I would not use anything less than a 5W-40 synthetic, you may want to look into an oil pan heater.  Even the cheap magnetic oil pan heaters do a pretty decent job.  The heater mats that you bond to the oil pan are a pain in the butt to install and if they go bad a mess to replace.  The other option would be to have the proper size threaded bung welded into your oil pan and install an oil heater.  I have one installed on my John Deere tractors.  It heats up the transmission/hydraulic oil.  When it is really cold out I plug it in for a few hours to warm up the transmission/hydraulic oil in the transmission sump.  Makes a very noticeable difference and improvement to how the hydraulics and hydrostatic drive operate. 

http://forum.tractorfarmandfamily.com/topic/1033-john-deere-4000-ten-series-engine-transmission-oil-heater/

 

Please bare in mind that my link is a bit dated so the prices may have changed since then. The link at the bottom of the page is for the transmission oil heater.  Here is the latest prices I am seeing online:

 

http://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-Transmission-Oil-Heater--AR94493_p_23208.html

 

Call your local John Deere dealer, many times they can give you a better price. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by LiveOak

[AH64ID]

For the cost of a heater you can cover the cost difference of a good flowing synthetic for several years, and the oil will flow even if you're parked without electricity. 

 

15w-40 synthetic will work very well for nearly everyone in the lower 48, and is a great summer oil too. 

[LiveOak]

Should have added that my post was aimed mostly at extreme & severe weather circumstances.  In most cases for most people those measures are not required, but if it is 30 below or worse outside with high winds, these heaters may prove to be MUCH appreciated especially in terms of accelerated engine warm up and and associated cabin heat effectiveness for some of us older folks with tired old bones. 

[AH64ID]

Absoloutly. Getting much below -30°F is extreme weather and it takes more than just good fluids. At those temps lots of things have to be considered. 

 

On a side note about cold starting, I never reinstalled my grid heater this winter as average winter temps here haven't needed it... well I am wondering if that was a bad choice. Since we got 9" of snow today, and it's still DUMPING, I'm driving the truck tomorrow. It will be low single digits when I leave for work and supposed to be close to 0° when I leave work.... it fires fast cold soaked to 12° without a grid heater so let's see what tomorrow brings. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by AH64ID

[dripley]

3 hours ago, LiveOak said:

Should have added that my post was aimed mostly at extreme & severe weather circumstances.  In most cases for most people those measures are not required, but if it is 30 below or worse outside with high winds, these heaters may prove to be MUCH appreciated especially in terms of accelerated engine warm up and and associated cabin heat effectiveness for some of us older folks with tired old bones. 

These are extremes I have never seen and will never see. That I understand and cannot comment on. But I can identify with the tired older bones, I have a few.

[AH64ID]

It's -18° and dropping. I'd really like to see what happens without grids in the morning but I also need to get to work. I broke down and plugged it in. Block was 130° when it was plugged in so it should be quite toasty in the morning. 

[LiveOak]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 7:10 PM, AH64ID said:

Absoloutly. Getting much below -30°F is extreme weather and it takes more than just good fluids. At those temps lots of things have to be considered. 

 

On a side note about cold starting, I never reinstalled my grid heater this winter as average winter temps here haven't needed it... well I am wondering if that was a bad choice. Since we got 9" of snow today, and it's still DUMPING, I'm driving the truck tomorrow. It will be low single digits when I leave for work and supposed to be close to 0° when I leave work.... it fires fast cold soaked to 12° without a grid heater so let's see what tomorrow brings. 

Hope you have the Winter fronts installed on the grill/radiator.  They will hold a good bit of what the block heater puts out allowing the entire underhood area to maintain some degree of warmth.  Also be mindful to either check under the hood or at least blow the horn good to chase out any animals that may make themselves a nice warm bed there for the night, especially if you have a cat. 

Do you have a way to plug your truck in at work? 

[WiscoRedkneck]

-6 here I've been bouncing around getting the parents furnace fixed, without grids plus my cardboard winter front I have not needed to plug in the truck and it starts great but I know I can't let it sit more than 4 hours at this temp without plugging in.

Also got some 5w-40 synthetic that will go in tomorrow Rotella I believe will update once done.  Sounds like it's only going to get colder here.

[AH64ID]

Looks like I may need to verify operation of my fuel heaters. -15° at the house and I had 6 psi. Low but not bad for the temp. After 2 miles it was -19° and pressure was 3. Turned around and got home when it dropped to 0 psi. I still had good rail pressure but didn't want to risk it. 

 

I have winterized fuel and 2 300w grid heaters so I am fairly surprised I was having issues. It could be the sender, but???

 

 

Block heater had the coolant at 78° and intake manifold at 55°, which is in parameter for grids...when installed. 

[WiscoRedkneck]

Is the fuel treated with power service as well or just winter blended fuel?

At those temps I have found that the fuel needs to be treated unless you have an article fox in tank heater or something along those lines....

Also take a water bottle and fill it with the fuel you have in the truck and set it on the porch if it's not gelled in the morning you are good.

I choose fill up sites carefully, always treat my fuel and always keep the water bottle of fuel outside to monitor tank conditions.

Best of luck and if the tank gelled up the factory heaters won't help you at all

[LiveOak]

51 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Looks like I may need to verify operation of my fuel heaters. -15° at the house and I had 6 psi. Low but not bad for the temp. After 2 miles it was -19° and pressure was 3. Turned around and got home when it dropped to 0 psi. I still had good rail pressure but didn't want to risk it. 

 

I have winterized fuel and 2 300w grid heaters so I am fairly surprised I was having issues. It could be the sender, but???

 

 

Block heater had the coolant at 78° and intake manifold at 55°, which is in parameter for grids...when installed. 

My fuel sender does something similar.  The separation membrane inside the fuel isolator becomes stiff and initially will indicate low fuel pressure and no fuel pressure on cold days.  Once the engine compartment has had some time to warm up, the fuel isolator separator membrane becomes more flexible and eventually indicates accurate fuel pressure.  I tried changing mine out and the new fuel isolator did the same thing.  Now I just let the truck warm up a bit before a drive off and the fuel pressure gauge is usually indicating accurate.  I have my Air Dog set at about 18 psi. 

[WiscoRedkneck]

-8 degree start up no grids been plugged in over night though.

Pay attention to the check gauges light 15w-40w dino took nearly 15 seconds to build pressure...

Cold start.mp4

[AH64ID]

1 hour ago, LiveOak said:

My fuel sender does something similar.  The separation membrane inside the fuel isolator becomes stiff and initially will indicate low fuel pressure and no fuel pressure on cold days.  Once the engine compartment has had some time to warm up, the fuel isolator separator membrane becomes more flexible and eventually indicates accurate fuel pressure.  I tried changing mine out and the new fuel isolator did the same thing.  Now I just let the truck warm up a bit before a drive off and the fuel pressure gauge is usually indicating accurate.  I have my Air Dog set at about 18 psi. 

 

I don't run an isolator but still wonder. The rail pressure was slow to build initially, when I had good pressure, but was hitting 20K when it should with 0 psi on the gauge. 

 

I am headed home now to check the heaters and see what's up. I'm hoping it was an indication issue but either way I didn't want to be stranded at -19° even for a few minutes. 

[LiveOak]

1 hour ago, WiscoRedkneck said:

-8 degree start up no grids been plugged in over night though.

Pay attention to the check gauges light 15w-40w dino took nearly 15 seconds to build pressure...

Cold start.mp4

The check engine light stayed on an uncomfortably long time.  Out of an abundance of caution, if you have not already, I would check to what if any codes latched.  A couple of the magnetic oil pan heaters would probably help eliminate such a long wait for oil pressure. 

[AH64ID]

Well I found my problem. It appears the fuse holder for my additional fuel heater had faulty wiring that caused it to go open/closed/open and heat up to the point of bulging and melting. I can also see exposed wiring on the inlet side so I feel the issue was in the holder. 

 

Before I found the failed fuse holder I was using and IR gun to check fuel temps while the truck was running. I was getting -12° in and out of the 1st heater inline (additional heater) and 11° out of the 2nd heater (the inlet is too hard to hit with an IR gun). The fuel psi gauge showed 0 psi but I was running fine, and before I would start the engine the pressure would go to 8 so I wasn't fulled plugged just partially. 

 

Once I found and repaired the fuse holder the pressure went to 6-7 with the engine running almost instantly, within about 2 seconds. Fuel heaters work! The temp out of my final filter was up to 34° about 30 seconds after fixing the 1st heater. That's 23° warmer in less than a minute. 

 

I wonder when the fuse blew/melted and how long I have been running on 1 heater. Prior to this morning the coldest I had seen here at home was -8°, and that's since living here. Since we are setting record cold temps I wonder if the winterized fuel isn't fully up to the task for unheated and exposed filters. I didn't see any broke down diesels but most of town was only -6° or so this morning and not the -19° I ran into. 

 

Anyhow... morale of the story is trust your gauges and fuel heaters work!!! 

Edited January 6, 2017 by AH64ID

[WiscoRedkneck]

@LiveOak I will throw a scanner on the truck but I'm confident that the switch to 5w-40 synthetic will resolve all my issues with oil pressure.

I have a magnet heater just never saw the need for it but I'm considering using it.

@AH64ID glad to hear you figured it out and yes the right heaters work wonders, but once tanks gell that's all she wrote.

My truck has two tank heaters one is 110v pad style, almost never used then I have the in tank artic fox which warms fuel with engine coolant.  Once my truck hits operating temperature the tank slowly climbs to around 80 degrees varies based on ambient temperature and fuel level.  I also have a shut off for it come summertime

Edited January 6, 2017 by WiscoRedkneck

[WiscoRedkneck]

Update, start up at 0 degrees with 5w-40 synthetic not plugged in with grid heaters fixed started 2ND try after cycling grids twice and I had oil pressure in 4 seconds

15w-40 dino is just not appropriate for our truck below 5 degrees IMHO, and 15 seconds for oil pressure is no good