Dieselfuture

Head gasket leaking oil

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

Well I hate to say that word head gasket, but I got oil bubbling out of front right, by head bolt just to the right looking from front( I got ARP's from po. ) It bubbles tiny little bit from head gasket and running down front cover, not enough to drip on the ground yet. Wondering where is a good place to get parts from, like a gasket set and whatever else I may need. Though about mabe going through the turbo but want to up size to at least a hybrid, so might just leave it be. Another thing is I already have ARP studs but not sure which ones, how do I tell, I know there is more than one choise. Will need to know torque on them when putting the hradon backnowledge on. Can I get the head off without removing studs looks pretty close. I will take the head to machine shop to surface and maybe even check for cracks, since I heard 24 valve heads like to crack sometimes. Will probably do a valve job and new seals at the same time. Not sure about ringing the head. The T at the back of the head, what's the best way going about it. Thanks for any advice. I will probably be lining up parts for a while and keep driving the truck,  unless it gets real bad or just blows out. I'm guessing there is an oil passage somewhere up front, just not sure how it's getting pushed out, oil pump pressure? Does it have something to do with coolant, I don't think I'm using any, maybe a little I had to put about a quart in the other day, will keep an eye on it. 

20170630_174520.jpg

Edited by Dieselfuture

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TFaoro    1,160
TFaoro
17 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

. Wondering where is a good place to get parts from, like a gasket set and whatever else I may need

Go to Cummins for the gaskets.

17 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Another thing is I already have ARP studs but not sure which ones, how do I tell, I know there is more than one choise. Will need to know torque on them when putting the hradon backnowledge on.

There are only 2 "types" of studs for ours, so likely they are the ARP 2000's. (The 625's are over a grand, so I doubt it)  ARP torque spec is 125 ft-lb

17 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Not sure about ringing the head

I don't really see the need for O rings at your power level. You could, but I don't see the point.

You should make sure the deck is flat as well. (Use a machinists square)

 

17 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Can I get the head off without removing studs looks pretty close

No. You can't get the head high enough in the rear with the studs in.

 

Make sure you check how tight that stud it's leaking around too. You may just be able to tighten it.

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jlbayes    242
jlbayes

Fast way to tell what studs (arp only). 425's are black, the actual stud. 625's are silver.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

What do you do with injector hold downs, considering people say not to mess with back bolts and just lose fronts. I'll be taking naked head to machine shop ( just valves left in ) , how do I get them back In right place when ready to put injectors in. @TFaoro @jlbayes

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TFaoro    1,160
TFaoro

Just remove all of them. I kept them in order so I could put them back the same, but I doubt it matters. 

When you put the back ones in torque them to the 89in-lbs like the front 

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

What do you do with injector hold downs, considering people say not to mess with back bolts and just lose fronts. I'll be taking naked head to machine shop ( just valves left in ) , how do I get them back In right place when ready to put injectors in. @TFaoro @jlbayes

Would this be what I need? https://www.genosgarage.com/product/gasket-4090035/gaskets-and-seals

Thank you, I hate not having parts when resembling. :thumb1:

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TFaoro    1,160
TFaoro

It looks like it. You'll really be able to tell what you need when you tear it down. 

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

True, I'm just a bit anal about it and like to get right things ahead of time, although I done that before and still have unused parts laying around.  How's Victor rienz compare to cummins, I used it on other motors and local rebuilder likes their prodact too. But for 60 more bucks I don't mind getting cummins stuff. 

Can one guy get the head off or does it take two, what's it waight anyway looks heavy. Getting exited here. Probably going to tear in to in next week. Still need to use the truck this coming weekend. 

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jlbayes    242
jlbayes

I always leave the back hold down bolts in. Machine shop has no need to mess with them.

 

That gasket kit is EVERYTHING for the top end. You would likely only need the intake plate gasket, head gasket and manifold gasket. Maybe intake seals if they touch the guides.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

How do you deal with back pushrods, I think they might be too long to come out of top.

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jlbayes    242
jlbayes

You may have to remove wiper arms and the plastic piece to get them all the way out. Sometimes I can without.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

Oh boy, just got off the phone with machine shop and got a quote of $1500 bucks :wow:to go through the head. They said more than likely vale guides need redone and by that time might as well do valve job assuming head isn't cracked. He says 50/50 chance on cracked head. To resurface and clean about $280 out the door, if valves don't have to come out which I don't think they do. So here I am stock on deciding do I take a chance ( which I probably will) or do I do it right the first time. But in my mind to do it right I need to deck the block too and might as well go through the motor. It runs good, starts right up so I need some intellectual advice.

Taging a few of you that I know delt with this, thanks for the help. @Mopar1973Man @jlbayes @TFaoro

How are we supposed to get a million miles again, is it like having a hammer in a family for 3 generations that only had 5 handles and 2 heads replaced, but still a same hammer:think:.

Edited by Dieselfuture

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TFaoro    1,160
TFaoro

Check the price on a new head from Cummins. If I remember right it's less than that.

I wouldn't just have it surfaced though. You'll regret it if something goes wrong.

You do not have to deck the block to do it "right." If it's flat, then you're just wasting money. Mine was left untouched even though I had the block machined.

I'd check the block with a machinist square, and if it's good don't worry about the bottom end. (Assuming no scoring on the cylinder walls)

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

Guy told me new bare head is 700 plus all the work on it will be around 2k, I see what you mean a new assembled head from cummins might be cheaper then rebuilding this one. 

I'm probably going to pull it off and pull a valve or two out and see how the guides are, if everything looks ok I'll probably just take a chance on surfacing it. Might not even do valve seals, all I got is oil leaking from front and it's not even that bad, just don't want to have it blow out on the road. I know not the greatest choice but money is tight and I've spent too much on it already. So...we'llsee how it goes. How bad was your head when you did it, did it need all the new guides and valve job? @TFaoro Maybe some RTV will take careof it. 

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jlbayes    242
jlbayes

More like 75/25 the head is cracked lol. And not all cracks are bad. They would need to pressure test to be sure.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

@Mopar1973Man was this the rebuild kit you recently used  https://dieselautopower.com/holset-genuine-hx35-rebuild-kit-3575169/

@jlbayes you probably right on75/25 but I don't have a lot of choice, sure not going to spend 1500 to rebuild a head. Probably will just surface it and put it back on, I will relap the valves and put new seals on myself if needed. Might even do a little porting just for fun, nothing crazy just to clean it up. Also heard you mention in a different post, friend of yours has a good place for a hybrid Turbo, could you remind me where that is, please. I really like having my exhaust brake and I think hybrid is about the only way I'm going to gain with what I got.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture

@Mopar1973Man was this the rebuild kit you recently used  https://dieselautopower.com/holset-genuine-hx35-rebuild-kit-3575169/

@jlbayes you probably right on75/25 but I don't have a lot of choice, sure not going to spend 1500 to rebuild a head. Probably will just surface it and put it back on, I will relap the valves and put new seals on myself if needed. Might even do a little porting just for fun, nothing crazy just to clean it up. Also heard you mention in a different post, friend of yours has a good place for a hybrid Turbo, could you remind me where that is, please. I really like having my exhaust brake and I think hybrid is about the only way I'm going to gain with what I got.

I cleaned top of the stud and it looks silver to me, what are the chances someone spend some serious bucks on this truck before, like maybe an oringed head too? And then when they sold it put old injectors and turbo in. Just guessing at this point, but here is a picture of a stud right behind tstat housing 

20170705_174837.jpg

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jlbayes    242
jlbayes

I know there is a shadow on that nut but is it tightened down all the way? It looks a bit odd.

 

North American Turbo Systems.

 

Fwiw the head that is on my green truck is full of cracks. It just got surfaced and reinstalled. The engine in it is a throw away so I was not concerned about it.

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trreed    117
trreed

I agree with @jlbayes, something looks goofy with those studs. First picture is of the stud in the same location on my truck. The longer ones go on the exhaust manifold side, so I'm wondering if you don't have 6 longer ones hiding under the valve cover. 

Second picture is of a shorter stud torqued to 135 ft-lbs. (I have ARP 2000's, the cheaper) Since I can't see the same amount of thread on your stud, I bet it's not torqued properly. Good thing the head is coming off!

And finally, I'm betting those are 625's. Torque on those is 150 ft.lbs.  No guarantee of the o-ringed head or previous high performance operation, as some people like to have the strongest possible to prevent issues. 

IMG_3717.JPG.ce546bba0c53f5e75a636aa2acada499.JPGIMG_3716.JPG.207e8a3dcf2e2c20cd4a0eb0d14d7d86.JPG

Edited by trreed
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jlbayes    242
jlbayes

He has thread sticking above and that is not such a big deal. What I am looking at is the bottom of the nut and top of the washer. It may just be the shadow messing with me.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture
3 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

He has thread sticking above and that is not such a big deal. What I am looking at is the bottom of the nut and top of the washer. It may just be the shadow messing with me.

They are tite, the shadow is messing with you. When I first got the truck it seeped oil out of the front stud, so I took the nut off and put RTV in the hole and torqued it down to 150, not knowing correct spec. It's been like that for 6 years now, and finally oil is coming from head gasket. 

10 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

He has thread sticking above and that is not such a big deal. What I am looking at is the bottom of the nut and top of the washer. It may just be the shadow messing with me.

They are tite, the shadow is messing with you. When I first got the truck it seeped oil out of the front stud, so I took the nut off and put RTV in the hole and torqued it down to 150, not knowing correct spec. It's been like that for 6 years now, and finally oil is coming from head gasket. 

@trreed they sure do look silver, unless some knock off

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trreed    117
trreed

Look closely at the nuts and studs.  ARP should be stamped into both, along with the thread pitch on the nut.

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Dieselfuture    276
Dieselfuture
3 hours ago, trreed said:

Look closely at the nuts and studs.  ARP should be stamped into both, along with the thread pitch on the nut.

I'll take a look when I get home, I know the stud doesn't not sure on the nut. Nuts almost look a bit purple in color. 

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