Problems with dead pedal between 25mph and 45 mph

[digidoggie18]

So I have a ram 2500 diesel cummins 24v. Over the past couple years I have been having issues with a ghost fault that I just cannot seem to fix. I have codes 1693, 0500 and 0122... What I get is cut out and surging normally between 30 and 45mph... I took it in and the shop said map sensor so it was replaced... the Apps sensor was replaced, the injection pump was replaced and the lift pump was replaced. Fuel pressure is good and fuel filter was just changed today. The shop also said I had a jacked up MPG tuner of which I did not put on (PO)... the chip is fully disconnected as well so it is currently running stock... What I get is at 30-45mph under moderate load the turbo will cut out and I get a dead pedal... If I move it up and down rapidly when it happens I get nothing... However if I lightly use the gas it will go through the range without surging or bucking...  In my eyes it also seems to happen more when it is warm out as opposed to just constantly or randomly... Where do I start to get this figured out? I've been chasing this since 2016... My alternator is also brand new as of march too (stopped charging).... I'm am so lost on this currently so any help would be massively appreciated...

[digidoggie18]

anyone?

[Mopar1973Man]

Anyone replace the APPS with a Timbo's? Did anyone test the wiring between the APPS and the ECM?

 

Anyone do an AC noise test of the alternator?

 

[dripley]

What lift pump do you have? What fuel pressures are you seeing at idle and WOT currently? Turbo cutting out is fuel related I am thinking

 

Does surging and such happen in any gear at speed? I am wondering whether it is speed or rpm related.

 

A little more info on the truck would be helpful. Year and transmission.

[digidoggie18]

22 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Anyone replace the APPS with a Timbo's? Did anyone test the wiring between the APPS and the ECM?

 

Anyone do an AC noise test of the alternator?

 

I did not do this yet.. I will do it in the evening when I get home.

22 hours ago, dripley said:

What lift pump do you have? What fuel pressures are you seeing at idle and WOT currently? Turbo cutting out is fuel related I am thinking

 

Does surging and such happen in any gear at speed? I am wondering whether it is speed or rpm related.

 

A little more info on the truck would be helpful. Year and transmission.

 

I have carter pump in the tank currently from Napa. At WOT when tested a couple weeks ago it was right under 14 psi if I am not mistaken (truck sits quite a bit and is driven normally once ever couple weeks).. I will check it again this evening. So as of now it seemed to run a lot better when it's colder however, it does it sporadically... For example I let it sit then drove it in the cold and it was great for almost an hour but literally the minute it hit 190 degrees it started acting up then kept acting up from there on out... Last night it wasn't hardly doing it then it ended up doing it at 70mph... It will do it anywhere from 20mph now to 70mph. It is also not really gear or rpm specific. It will do it at 1400rpm all the way to 3500rpm... It is a 2001 and I believe it is the 47RE... The transmission feels like it runs extremely strong too

[dripley]

Beware of the in tank pump. I ran one for while, courtesy of Dodge, and started having dead pedal issues and some bucking while running it. Turned out my pressure was 5 at idle and pretty much 0 at WOT. Got the pressure under control and those issues went away. Good fuel pressure also helps to insure your VP lives a long and happy. A fuel pressure gauge in the cab is highly recomended

 

But as @Mopar1973Man mentions above electrical issues will make these trucks do strange things also. Electrical gremlins are not my strong point but seems you might have some.

[Mopar1973Man]

Fuel pressure is checked in 3 different states.

 

1. Idling

2. At highway speed

3. Wide open throttle

 

I only see one number I'm going to assume just idling. Might look OK but you could find out take pump is hitting 0 PSI at WOT. Needs to be 14 PSI at WOT as a minimum.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

The WOT is under load going down highway not free revving in the drive way. 

 

How were you checking the FP?

Edited August 16, 2018 by dripley

[digidoggie18]

Haha I get WOT lol... When I checked the Lift pump I did it on install of the new unit to ensure it was correct. it was sitting at roughly 18 psi at idle and cranked up to 20 with just key on but not running and held at 20 so I assumed no leaks after replacing the injection pump and the lift pump... I wanted to move it to the frame rail but I didn't have 600$ to waste on a fass or airdog setup when I had a 200$ option after already buying a damn 1900$ injection pump.. I also checked it right at the back of the filter husing... at WOT on install it was sitting at 16 psi... The truck mostly sits so I will double check it again as soon as I find an extension hose yet again. I have no clue where my 6 foot hose went

 

[dripley]

If you are running as stock as it sounds, you should have a schrader valve on the input to the VP. You can hook your gauge there. It is best to test your pressure after the filter. Then you know the pressure the VP is getting. Since the VP's electronics are cooled by the fuel and pump is lubricated by the fuel, good pressure is a must. Adding 2 cycle oil to the fuel is good insurance on the lubricity to help extend the life of that new VP. Todays fuel is much drier than the fuel was when these trucks were new.

[Mopar1973Man]

27 minutes ago, digidoggie18 said:

already buying a damn 1900$ injection pump

I wish we would of knew that we have vendors with better prices than that. Also, I've been known to teach people how to change injection pumps over the phone. Ask @JAG1 he finally changed his first injection pump this summer. Typically I get a pump for about $1,200 then I charge about $120 to change out the pump being it takes me an average of 2 hours to change them. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[digidoggie18]

15 minutes ago, dripley said:

If you are running as stock as it sounds, you should have a schrader valve on the input to the VP. You can hook your gauge there. It is best to test your pressure after the filter. Then you know the pressure the VP is getting. Since the VP's electronics are cooled by the fuel and pump is lubricated by the fuel, good pressure is a must. Adding 2 cycle oil to the fuel is good insurance on the lubricity to help extend the life of that new VP. Todays fuel is much drier than the fuel was when these trucks were new.

 

 

With that being said should i be seeing no less than 14 at the VP port? 

[dripley]

Just now, digidoggie18 said:

 

 

With that being said should i be seeing no less than 14 at the VP port? 

Yes. At WOT. That should keep the return fuel at the max.

[Mopar1973Man]

Correct. 14-20 PSI while it's rolling down the pavement.

 

10-14 is a warning zone. As the pressure falls from 14 PSI down to 10 PSI the overflow valve is closing and returned fuel is being restricted. 

 

10 PSI and lower the overflow valve is closed completely and no return fuel will flow at all from the VP44. This is highly damaging. 

 

Just consider fuel pressure like oil pressure if you starve the engine for oil pressure it will wipe out bearings quickly. Same thing for VP44 since the only thing cooling and lubing the pump is return fuel this means you MUST keep pressure above 14 PSI all the time. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[JAG1]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I wish we would of knew that we have vendors with better prices than that. Also, I've been known to teach people how to change injection pumps over the phone. Ask @JAG1 he finally changed his first injection pump this summer. Typically I get a pump for about $1,200 then I charge about $120 to change out the pump being it takes me an average of 2 hours to change them. 

I only had to call him every 15 minutes....... OKAY! Now I got that done, so what's next? Step by step it was. Sometimes Moparman try to eliminate another call, I could tell, cause he'd try cramming two steps into one and I'd say, hey wait a minute, wait till I get this first thing first . Finally I got it done and went very smooth and started right up.

The toughest part was trying to hold back Moparmans race horse on the phone. It was like he trying to cram a whole prime rib down my throat. LOL cause everytime... that second step, he'd try slipping in would be a giant echo in that hollow space between my shoulders.

[Mopar1973Man]

 I feel the love @JAG1 ...

[dripley]

@JAG1 and @Mopar1973Man I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation.

[JAG1]

Yeah now MoparMan taken away the wonderful pleasure of writting a check for donations, I used to enjoy it so much too. Wonderful guy, he crabs at me for it . Anyhow, so now I have to figure out this electronic transfer stuff, like I'm an alien on mars it feels like, to feel right about calling 50 million times.  

[Mopar1973Man]

58 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Yeah now MoparMan taken away the wonderful pleasure of writting a check for donations, I used to enjoy it so much too. Wonderful guy, he crabs at me for it 

 

Yeah, the economy is doing so good then why did my bank close up all the local branches? Now I've got to drive 125 miles one way just to deal with a check. (Ugh!) 

 

59 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Anyhow, so now I have to figure out this electronic transfer stuff, like I'm an alien on mars it feels like, to feel right about calling 50 million times.

 

You do call 50 million times. But you enjoy it... 

[digidoggie18]

Thank you gentleman very much.. It appears I have found my problem with your advice... At idle my lift pump to the filter and up to the vp44 reads 14, at moderate throttle (halfway) about 10psi, at Wot 0... Lift pump is dead.. So, i don't have 600-1k for a fass or an air dog... What would be my best course of option? 

Edited August 18, 2018 by digidoggie18