Clutch and tranny

[Mopar1973Man]

I going on the hunch the slave cylinder wasn't bled properly. Then it would have a short throw. Even mine broke the tabs the very first pedal hit... Truely you don't need the tabs to install a slave it does help keep the slave from pushing out while trying to get the nuts on... What got me scratch my head is if the slave was short throw like it was and never broke the tabs so the trans should of been tough shifting because of the input shaft dragging with the flywheel.

[smokeythedodge]

DO NOT overfill it. Doing so inhibits proper oil slinging. They designed it to properly lubricate itself with 4.75 quarts- up to the fill plug. Overfilling is all over the internet forums with people doing it successfully, yes, but blumenthal in okc as well as Dodge says that overfilling will F one up over the long term. Never will do it with mine, that is for sure... If anyone says to, I would think twice... Lot of design went into the transmission, if they wanted you to fill it up with 6 quarts or whatever, they would have put the fill plug higher. I have a temp probe on my 6 speed tranny, and when I tried the overfilling thing, it ran 20 degrees hotter. Then I got smart, and called some people about it. For one, if you buy a tranny from Dodge, and you overfill it they will void the warranty. Just my opinion on this though....

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

I going on the hunch the slave cylinder wasn't bled properly. Then it would have a short throw. Even mine broke the tabs the very first pedal hit... Truely you don't need the tabs to install a slave it does help keep the slave from pushing out while trying to get the nuts on...

What got me scratch my head is if the slave was short throw like it was and never broke the tabs so the trans should of been tough shifting because of the input shaft dragging with the flywheel.

Yeah that thing must have been a bear to shift and get in gear if that clutch disengage cylinder wasn't fully disengaging it.

[AH64ID]

There has been lots of discussion on the overfilling, its rare to find any companies that don't endorse at least a qt over. That's why I stuck with about a qt on mine (and with the fast coolers, its much less elevation than on a non fast cooler trans).. But in the end its every persons decision on what to do, I don't think the NV5600 has seen a lot of failures either way. The increase in temp also has two trains of thought, the most popular (thou not always accurate) is that the extra oil is now bathing the bearings more, and pulling more heat from them.

[smokeythedodge]

There has been lots of discussion on the overfilling, its rare to find any companies that don't endorse at least a qt over. That's why I stuck with about a qt on mine (and with the fast coolers, its much less elevation than on a non fast cooler trans).. But in the end its every persons decision on what to do, I don't think the NV5600 has seen a lot of failures either way. The increase in temp also has two trains of thought, the most popular (thou not always accurate) is that the extra oil is now bathing the bearings more, and pulling more heat from them.

Cool, I didn't think about it that way. I think I am going to look into those coolers, that is not a bad idea at all.

[LiveOak]

I overfilled mine approximately 2 pints about 8 years ago. The first difference I noticed was somewhat easier shifting. I did the same thing with my wife's truck as soon as I got it. There was a minor improvment in shifting as well. I can't atest to any change in temps as I have no probe to measure temp. set up.

[hawkeye213]

It's beginning to look like xmas here in July. The freight company called today and my tranny came in. I pulled my rear main seal. I had to go pick up my flywheel and while I was there I had him take out the old seal and put the new seal in.Then when I got home my clutch was here so today was a good day.So I solved a lot of my probs today. The new tranny came with the tranfer adapter case already on it so I don't have to worry about that case and all the bearings and stuff:hyper:. The rear main seal was throwing me (drill 2 holes in the seal and then use a slide hammer?) not for me. Problem solved.I just removed the whole aluminum case and took to the machine shop $10 problem solved:hyper:. Stupid question the felpro seal came with a gasket for the aluminum case it has an orange stripe on one side ( I imagine self sealing gasket) which side block side or tranny would you put it. Would you rtv on other side. Seems like I remember if you have a gasket you do not need sealer. Thanks Rob

[hawkeye213]

Prob #1 the slave cylinder dilemma

I going on the hunch the slave cylinder wasn't bled properly. Then it would have a short throw. Even mine broke the tabs the very first pedal hit... Truely you don't need the tabs to install a slave it does help keep the slave from pushing out while trying to get the nuts on...

What got me scratch my head is if the slave was short throw like it was and never broke the tabs so the trans should of been tough shifting because of the input shaft dragging with the flywheel.

I know its making me nuts thinking about it. I swear this truck shifted so smooth and never any grinding or any suspicious feeling at all. It's been exactly a year since I replaced the slave. (I checked the post).

How is that possible. But that plastic thing still being intact is making me nuts.

It just seems like if the short throw was a problem it would have shown up with some sort of symptoms right. LOL I realize the tranny blew up a year later but I don't really think it was the slave that caused it. Do you ? What would the clutch plate look like if it wasn't engaging properly.

Is it possible that the nv5600 has a short throw ? That fork is right up against the hole in the bell housing. How far do you figure the slave has to push for the clutch to disengage from the flywheel in a normal operating assembly

I remember when I first noticed the slave I was at a stop light and I pushed the clutch in and it kept wanting to pull forward. That was when I posted my problem. I remember having probs bleeding it and had to do it a couple of times and and it still felt soft. But I went to work and my friend got in and pumped the clutch like twenty times and from then on the clutch was perfect. It has worked perfectly right up to when the tranny blew up.

So what would be the prudent thing to do here folks. Re bleed the slave and and try it again for starters ? Is there a way to test it like it is now.

Oh well any suggestions would really, really would be appreciated

Thanks Rob

Prob #2 Getting this hulk of a tranny stabbed correctly the first time:lol:

---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

The over fill question the company I bought the tranny from stated to over fill the tranny with two quarts actually.

AH the coolers are a good idea but as you can imagine I am a little tapped at the moment.

Thanks Rob

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 AM ----------

Mopar I was just rereading the clutch hydraulics tip and I was wondering why the master and slave have to be taken out of the truck to perform it.

Thanks Rob

[LiveOak]

hawkeye, my advice to you is to replace the slave cylinder you have with a the southbend slave cylinder assembly. The two are matched better that way.

[hawkeye213]

Sound advice Live Oak. But not want I really wanted to hear. Another 300.00. Another 3 days of waiting for a part. I know your right. But geez it is just frustrating.:banghead: I know quit whining dude. Thanks Rob

[LiveOak]

Sound advice Live Oak. But not want I really wanted to hear. Another 300.00. Another 3 days of waiting for a part. I know your right. But geez it is just frustrating.:banghead: I know quit whining dude. Thanks Rob

There is great value in "gettin' r done right the first time". I recommend you talk Peter at Southbend. I am sure he or one of his staff can give you some great pointers and explain the importance of installing a slave cylinder matched to the clutch. The OEM slave cylinders don't always work well with the heavier duty SB clutches and can cause shifting problems. NOT something you want to deal with on a newly replaced transmission. Get it done right and yes I realize this is yet more money out or pocket :spend:but once the job is done right, you likely won't have to deal with this again for a very long time.

[AH64ID]

There is great value in "gettin' r done right the first time".

This is very true, sometimes the best time to do things, isn't the right ($$) time to do them.. If its at all possible I say do it now, if not then keep it in the back of your mind.

[hawkeye213]

Got a call into Peter already. Stupid question can I go ahead and install the tranny or do the hydraulics fit internally ?Thanks Rob

[LiveOak]

Got a call into Peter already. Stupid question can I go ahead and install the tranny or do the hydraulics fit internally ? Thanks Rob

The slave assembly can be installed both ways. I think you should wait and talk to Peter about this as there are some pit falls of breaking the seal on the slave assembly which comes as a complete pre-bled assembly but has a quick disconnect that should NOT be opened unless absolutely required. I am sure Peter and some others who do this for a living can better advise you on this than I. I personally would wait and get the SB slave assembly and install it as a complete assembly when installing the transmission. You will have to make that call. I have spare vehicles that I can fall back on not to mention making calls from a computer key board are MUCH easier than the from the guy who is doing this hands on. I commend your spirit and motivation to tackle this job on your own and think you are doing a great job it it so far.

[hawkeye213]

ok just got off the phone with Peter @ southbend. First I just want to say man is he a good guy or what ? Man I wish every company I had dealt with on this problem was as good as southbend and Peter were. Talk about customer service. Standard Transmission and Gear are the same way. Anyway told him about my prob with the slave. He says it should have popped also. But then we get to talking and he ask maybe the fork could have been put on backwards. There is a Stamped Roman numeral I on one end and it goes to the pivot ball. I go out and check it and it is correctly put on. So we talk some more and discussing it. He stated if the slave was not working correctly then the clutch would not have worked properly period. It would not be disengaging the plate and I would be having shifting issues period. So the only conclussion you could come to is that the slave was working properly. It just wasn't pushing far enough to break the plastic. I asked how far does it have to push to disengage he stated 7/8 of an inch at the throw out bearing which actually makes it a little longer at the slave rod. I am sure some physics guy could figure it out but I (Rob) am gonna guess its like an 1 1/8 at the slave. I had measured the slave and it is exactly 2" from the base to the end of the plastic. Where it goes thru the bell housing you have 3/16 of an inch from 2 that leaves you 1 13/16 of and inch of slave rod. You also have to allow for the distance of the concaveness in fork that the rod sits in and the distance the fork sits away from the bell housing and the wear on the clutch plate the compression of the rod when installing it ect. ect ect.:lmao:You can do all the math you want but as Peter said " if you were not having shifting issues then theslave was working properly. It is the only logical explanation. Upto and including the time after the tranny blew up the clutch was still working. When we pulled it up on the trailer to haul it home I had to start the truck for the power steering when I pushed the clutch into start it just sounded normal when I let off the clutch you could just hear the tranny grinding away. LOL He is right it had to be working or the truck would have been showing symptoms period the end. Can I please get an amen from the crowd. I totally agree the plastic should have broken. But the clutch worked in spite of it. Peters advice was to install everything as is and he bet that with everything being new that the slave will pop the plastic and everything will be just right. LOL can you believe that. Here is a guy who could have just said oh yeah you need our heavy duty hydraulic kit for 300.00 and you probably need this and that. And I would have gone OK ship it. UNBELIEVABLE LOL. Ok with that said Live Oak and AH this is not a shot at ya'll in any way shape or form I appreciate your input always. I was thinking the same exact thing ya'll were, I needed a new hydraulics and to be honest I am not out of the woods yet. I am just glad you said to call Peter.But it's like Mopar said "scratching my head as to how it worked" LOL worked is the key word and someone else stated "I bet that was hard shifting." LOL the other illogical thing it shifted like a dream.Anyway it does not make sense that it worked. But it most assuredly did or hopefully still does. Thanks to everybody Rob

[ISX]

Very interesting. Only problem is that this raises even more questions Why did it have all the bearings toasted and the flywheel and pressure plate all toasted. Why did it do anything it did! Did Peter have any ideas?

[LiveOak]

hawkeye, sounds like you got some good advice and a plan to move forward. For some reason, I thought I remember reading that you found brake fluid or something similar to it leaking down the side of the trans area. I presumed that to be the slave cylinder fluid leaking and that you needed a new cylinder anyway. My personal decision would be to replace the slave since it has been on there for so long and start off with all new components matched up. I agree that in all likihood if the original slave was properly working, it will probably continue to work for a long time.......my luck is that it will break a week after I install it. Anyhow, glad to hear you got some good advice from the guy who knows his $!it.

[AH64ID]

Glad you got some good answers from a clutchologist :hyper:Now get that sucker bolted up and back on the road.

[hawkeye213]

Alright got her stabbed will get some fluid tomorrow and hook up the drivelines, starter and that dreaded slave and then will fire it up. Keep you fingers crossed and say little prayer for ol Rob. ISX I really don't know the reason why it all happened. These are the things I do know for sure the tranny got hotter than hell and the rear gear bearing was toast. The pilot bearing was also toast. The plastic thing on the slave was still intact. When it blew there was some fluid leaking out of the tranny when I looked underneath which I thought was brake fluid but after seeing the viscosity of the tranny fluid it could have been that. The master cylinder is still full of fluid and there was no visible leaking from the slave or the line up to the master cylinder.The clutch plate itself looks just fine. The clutch was definitely working even after the tranny blew. I never had any shifting problems in the truck not a glitch or a grind ever. Smooth as silk even up to the point when it blew. So I don't know how to explain it. I am really not a mechanic. If you tell me what is wrong I can usually fix it. Not necessarily the first time either. Since this happened 12 days ago I have searched the internet and read countless post of people who were just drivng down the in 6th gear and there NV5600 tranny just blew up. On the other side of that I am sure there are tens of thousands of people who own the NV5600 who swear by it. So there you have it. It just happened I guess. I cannot even expalin the slave it's just baffling. Hopefully tomorrow it fires up and I get on down the road. If not I'll just come back here and ask some more questions and hopefully get some more solid advice and wil get her fixed.Thanks Rob

[guinnessbrewer]

Rob, Sounds like you are doing pretty good considering everthing, thanks for the pictures and information, hope everthing goes well tomorrow! What kind of tranny fluid did you end up using? Chris

Alright got her stabbed will get some fluid tomorrow and hook up the drivelines, starter and that dreaded slave and then will fire it up. Keep you fingers crossed and say little prayer for ol Rob. ISX I really don't know the reason why it all happened. These are the things I do know for sure the tranny got hotter than hell and the rear gear bearing was toast. The pilot bearing was also toast. The plastic thing on the slave was still intact. When it blew there was some fluid leaking out of the tranny when I looked underneath which I thought was brake fluid but after seeing the viscosity of the tranny fluid it could have been that. The master cylinder is still full of fluid and there was no visible leaking from the slave or the line up to the master cylinder.The clutch plate itself looks just fine. The clutch was definitely working even after the tranny blew. I never had any shifting problems in the truck not a glitch or a grind ever. Smooth as silk even up to the point when it blew. So I don't know how to explain it. I am really not a mechanic. If you tell me what is wrong I can usually fix it. Not necessarily the first time either. Since this happened 12 days ago I have searched the internet and read countless post of people who were just drivng down the in 6th gear and there NV5600 tranny just blew up. On the other side of that I am sure there are tens of thousands of people who own the NV5600 who swear by it. So there you have it. It just happened I guess. I cannot even expalin the slave it's just baffling. Hopefully tomorrow it fires up and I get on down the road. If not I'll just come back here and ask some more questions and hopefully get some more solid advice and wil get her fixed. Thanks Rob

[hawkeye213]

Ok sorry for the delay gettin back. But since I was home and not in Montana on vacation I thought I would go back to work early and save my vacation hours for later. I just work weekends so off to work I went. Anyway got everything back together and got in the the truck pushed the clutch in and heard the plastic thing pop on the slave and thought oh yea here we go. Fired her up and guess what I now have every problem that everyone had mentioned I would have if I had a bad slave . Hard shifting cannot get to reverse the truck creeps forward while I am in gear. I took the hydraulics off the truck and rebled it again to see if that was the prob but no luck. The shaft on the slave actually seemed to be stuck in the extended positon when I tried to push it in to start the pumping action but it finally broke free with some forceful pressure. Go figure. So I am ordering the south bend hyd x 1.50 kit today and hopefully get it in a couple of days and then will get it installed and hopefully this week I will get back on the road. Live Oak's advice to get git er done right the first ime was dead on and I should have listened. I know he isn't and "I told you so guy" but you were right my friend. I want to thank everyone for their help and advice on this project. My good friend Mikel who came and got me in New Mexico and then both Mikel and Kevin for helping me with labor and support in getting my truck fixed. Man you never know who friends are till you get in a bind. Thanks guys. I will keep ya'll updated on what happens when I get my hydraulics in. I will also try and get a cost list and who I used for what so that in the future if your NV5600 goes out they can search and find out what it's gonna take to get it fixed. While I wish it hadn't happened at all I did learn alot about my truck. "sometimes the hard way" but sometimes that is the best way. Like I said before I am no mechanic but it was kind of fun and satisfying to know you can DIY with a little help from your friends. I know I was a bit annoying with my post and stupid questions sometimes but it was a bit scary and frustrating at times so I apologize for that. Thanks RobPs I wanted to include a pic of the part Dodge wanted 320.00 for that I got from Noey at ST&G for a dollar. It's the melted blob on the shift tower shaft that fits on the ball and then fits into the cup in the tranny. 320.00:banghead: