VP44 Keyway Dropped into Gear Case

[Bafazane]

Unfortunately, while removing my injection pump, I dropped the keyway into the gear case. I'm going to fish around a bit more to see if I can get it out easily, but I know I'm likely looking at timing gear cover removal. The two things I'm wondering about are:

 

- Whether or not it's necessary to replace the crank seal while you're in there

- What gasket maker people prefer to use when reinstalling the timing cover

 

I've searched quite a bit but have not found any solid answers.

 

What do you guys think?

[Dieselfuture]

You could just buy a new key (there is a chart someplace for key numbers)and leave the old one at bottom of pan if it made its way there and not sitting between teeth. From what I understand it should drop to the bottom. Black or gray rtv gasket maker oil resistant is what I've always used and never had problems. If seal is not leaking you don't need to replace it but since you're in there may not be a bad idea. 

[dripley]

You could bar the engine over a few revs with a barring tool or with the alternator pulley to be sure it drooped. I dont know if there is anything else it can land on but gears. I am definitely not sure about that.

 I used the utra grey on mine and it worked fine.

[Dieselfuture]

After looking at your picture @dripley I think he'll be better off pulling the front cover

[Bafazane]

Thanks for getting back to me guys. I'm about to start tearing down the front of the engine to pull the cover off. Fingers crossed for a smooth key-ectomy.

[Dieselfuture]

Good luck hopefully it's sitting on top of a gear waiting for you

[dripley]

There appears to be some spots it could linger on for the right bounce to throw it into the gear train.

[Bafazane]

The good news is that I found the key (and installed the new VP44, so that if I knocked that one off too, I wouldn't have to repeat the timing cover removal)! Going to finish cleaning everything up, then break until I can head into town to pick up a new crank seal.

 

Edit: The key fell out when I pulled the cover off, so I can't be sure of where it was laying. Even though this is a pain in the arse, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Bafazane
Addition

[dripley]

25 minutes ago, Bafazane said:

Edit: The key fell out when I pulled the cover off, so I can't be sure of where it was laying. Even though this is a pain in the arse, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I would agree. 

 

watch out for the crank seal. Something that surprised me is installing them dry, no lube. That always seemed weird to me. My front seal, I installed dry does not leak. My rear seal installed by someone else leaks and I dont know that it was installed dry.

[Nekkedbob]

And as I remember let the seal set for at least 4 hours before starting the engine or it might leak.

[Bafazane]

I'm having a hard time finding genuine Cummins crank seals around here, as well as finding out whether the other brands come with the installation tools that purportedly come with official Cummins seals, or not. I'm finding Mahle, SKF, and National seals. The shop that has the National seal said those definitely do not come with the install tools (for setting correct depth, and helping snout through seal when installing cover), as he had just installed one on an '03 cummins today. He offered to install it for me if I brought the cover down to him. Do I risk it?

 

I know I can order the Cummins seal from out of the area, but I need to get this truck on the road tomorrow or first thing Saturday.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Bafazane
Addition

[dripley]

The most trouble I had was installing the seal in the cover. As far as risking the other fella I cant say, but if he installed one in an 03 I think he should know how to do it.

[Dieselfuture]

Especially if you need it asap,  he had some practice so maybe see if he can, it will get you moving. 

[Guest 04Mach1]

1 hour ago, Bafazane said:

I'm having a hard time finding genuine Cummins crank seals around here, as well as finding out whether the other brands come with the installation tools that purportedly come with official Cummins seals, or not. I'm finding Mahle, SKF, and National seals. The shop that has the National seal said those definitely do not come with the install tools (for setting correct depth, and helping snout through seal when installing cover), as he had just installed one on an '03 cummins today. He offered to install it for me if I brought the cover down to him. Do I risk it?

 

I know I can order the Cummins seal from out of the area, but I need to get this truck on the road tomorrow or first thing Saturday.

Just get a Fel-pro. It's the same identical seal as Cummins. Install the seal dry using the install sleeve and the installation tool that sets the seal at the correct depth in the cover. If the crank has a groove where the seal sits I recommend to install a wear sleeve also. I suggest Cummins part number 3802820 as my preferred front main crank seal replacement. https://www.amazon.com/3802820-Front-Crankshaft-Sleeve-Cummins/dp/B0728DG1CF . This has all the tools to install the seal in one box with wear sleeve and seal.

 

I prefer the Ultra-grey rtv as it is more resistant to vibration and oil than any other rtv. The grey rtv is what Cummins uses in the assembly plant.

Edited September 28, 2018 by 04Mach1

[IBMobile]

With the cover off this would be a good time to take care of the KDP, Killer Dowel Pin.

[Dieselfuture]

8 hours ago, 04Mach1 said:

Cummins part number 3802820

That is a bunch of them on eBay for under 10 bucks, but it just says aftermarket no brand name, but they all look like they came from the same place.

What is that black o ring for in the kit

[dripley]

I was surprised to see that after 400k miles mine had no groove worn into the crank. You could see where the seal had been riding the crank but i could not feel anything with my finger nail. I did have the seal with the sleeve and installed anyway.

Edited September 28, 2018 by dripley

[Bafazane]

12 hours ago, IBMobile said:

With the cover off this would be a good time to take care of the KDP, Killer Dowel Pin.

 

I did check and fortunately my my truck has the updated case, so no need for the KDP fix.

I'm waiting for the new seal to be installed as we speak, so I went and got supplies to take care of the vent mod. Here's to a cleaner engine!

[015point9]

How does one know if case is the updated type or not?  

Thanks

[Dieselfuture]

You should check all the bolts you can get to for tightness, they will do as much damage as kdp, some take them out, clean them and use locktight to put them back.