Injector install questions

[Ravewolf]

So I've been doing research lately, and had a sneaking suspicion that I had a leak somewhere after my injection pump. After looking hard, sure enough #5 fuel line was slightly wet. I said screw it and ordered an injection seal kit from thoroughbred (I think), and while I was at it I broke all the injectors down, soaked them in naptha, cleaned them more with b12 chemtool, then reassembled according to spec. 

With the new washers on, I've popped all them in by hand, set the crossover tubes in by hand, and now I'm about to torque the injector hold down clamps. The injectors are sitting higher than normal, is that normal? I figure the new copper washers haven't been seated yet, so they're up a bit higher, but is it OK to crank down those tiny 8mm bolts to seat them? 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Ravewolf

[dripley]

Did you seat the injectors? Did all the old copper sealing washer come out with the injectors? They should not be that much higher with new washers. Just installed new ones in mine and did not notice any height difference.

[Ravewolf]

9 minutes ago, dripley said:

Did you seat the injectors? Did all the old copper sealing washer come out with the injectors? They should not be that much higher with new washers. Just installed new ones in mine and did not notice any height difference.

All the old washers came out, I made extra sure. Is the injector hold down supposed to be flush when tight? Or is there a small gap? I tried to torque one down and the bolt snapped. I pulled the injector and tube, both were fine. This is my first time doing this and YouTube is a great help, but nothing beats hands on experience 

[dripley]

Yes there is a gap. I will get you a picture.

The toraue on them is 18#. To be honest with you I have not torqued one in a long time.

 

Something else that will help with leaks is tighten the injector line before you tighten the hold down. That will let the injector rotate a bit to seat the crossover tube. I do put the hold down blocks on first and install the bolt but leave it loose until the line is tightened.

[Ravewolf]

50 minutes ago, dripley said:

Yes there is a gap. I will get you a picture.

The toraue on them is 18#. To be honest with you I have not torqued one in a long time.

 

Something else that will help with leaks is tighten the injector line before you tighten the hold down. That will let the injector rotate a bit to seat the crossover tube. I do put the hold down blocks on first and install the bolt but leave it loose until the line is tightened.

I figured it out after going through the rest of the injectors, but I didn't torque the lines first. I'll loosen everything tomorrow and retorque everything correctly. Thanks for the help El Pollo lol

[dripley]

10 minutes ago, Ravewolf said:

I figured it out after going through the rest of the injectors, but I didn't torque the lines first. I'll loosen everything tomorrow and retorque everything correctly. Thanks for the help El Pollo lol

Thats El Pollo Loco to most. 

 

You might be ok. You can always fire it off and see. A little weep will most likely go away. But if you see fuel flowing most likely not. I did it the same way you did the first time I swapped my injectors. The only cure I found was loosening everything up then tighten the lines and then the hold downs and they all stopped. It is not unusual to see some moistness around the lines but should go away over several days.

 

You can fire it off without valve cover on. I always feared oil flying everywhere. Wrong.

[WiscoRedkneck]

So dumb question I just swapped out old rv275s for new one's first time doing this myself as well.  I put all injectors in and new tubes in one at a time then installed hold downs. Yes there is a gap, bled system through cracked lines then tightened line to spec after hold downs and valve cover were reinstalled and truck was running and really good to boot.  Now I have no visible leaks and the truck runs 10x better but with the exact same injector in a brand new body with new tubes I am laying down about twice as much black smoke as before is that normal do they need to "break in" do I have a internal leak I'm not seeing.  Truck runs great no weird egts just more smoke than before with worn out injectors.

[Evan]

I'm not sure what size nozzles are on those injectors.

Bigger nozzles than stock will most likely smoke more than stock.

 

I've not noticed my injectors breaking in. I run 2 stroke oil in fuel to hopefully keep carbon from  building up on them. 

 

I read the thread I would not consider weeping leaking fuel lines a normal or acceptable thing. From my experience most all leaks get worse not better

Edited April 15, 2019 by JAG1

[Mopar1973Man]

Weeping that doesn't stop with crossover tube o-rings is typically the mating face of the injection line is either rotten or been over torqued and crushed. Injector line replacement is required. I ended up with this issue and the leak stopped as soon as the new lines went on.

[dripley]

22 minutes ago, Evan said:

I'm not sure what size nozzles are on those injectors.

Bigger nozzles than stock will most likely smoke more than stock.

 

I've not noticed my injectors breaking in. I run 2 stroke oil in fuel to hopefully keep carbon from  building up on them. 

 

I read the thread I would not consider weeping leaking fule lines a normal or acceptable thing. From my experience most all leaks get worse not better

They are like a 40+hp not sure of the size of holes. 

I you can strap a trailer on it and get some good pulls and get the egt's up over 1000* and cook it off.

I have seen mine with small weeps that do go away after few days. I am not talking about running fuel, joist moistness. 

 

1 hour ago, WiscoRedkneck said:

So dumb question I just swapped out old rv275s for new one's first time doing this myself as well.  I put all injectors in and new tubes in one at a time then installed hold downs. Yes there is a gap, bled system through cracked lines then tightened line to spec after hold downs and valve cover were reinstalled and truck was running and really good to boot.  Now I have no visible leaks and the truck runs 10x better but with the exact same injector in a brand new body with new tubes I am laying down about twice as much black smoke as before is that normal do they need to "break in" do I have a internal leak I'm not seeing.  Truck runs great no weird egts just more smoke than before with worn out injectors.

Mine are a little smokey with the Comp. Just put in a set rebuilt RV's in mine and we shall see if they are any different. I had a set 50's in there before and surprised at the difference in smoke just to a 50. Is your boost pressure the same as before the install. Might have boost leak.

[Mopar1973Man]

4 minutes ago, dripley said:

Mine are a little smokey with the Comp. Just put in a set rebuilt RV's in mine and we shall see if they are any different. I had a set 50's in there before and surprised at the difference in smoke just to a 50

 

This is because all the canned tuners like Edge Juice, Edge Comp and even Smarty S-03 doesn't give enough control of the fuel timing maps to clean them up properly. 

 

Now Quadzilla Adrenaline and Smarty Touch have the abilities for larger injectors and allows for timing and fuel adjustment to fit just about any injector from +50 to +200 HP without much thought. 

 

 

[dripley]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

This is because all the canned tuners like Edge Juice, Edge Comp and even Smarty S-03 doesn't give enough control of the fuel timing maps to clean them up properly. 

 

Now Quadzilla Adrenaline and Smarty Touch have the abilities for larger injectors and allows for timing and fuel adjustment to fit just about any injector from +50 to +200 HP without much thought. 

 

 

I understand that, but I just spent my Quad savings.

[WiscoRedkneck]

The only confusion for me was I put a brand new set of the same injectors as before and it smokes more than before egts go higher under load but drop off quicker so I thought I fixed the dripping injector/injectors and or fuel leak into the cylinders. Based on performance and idle I have a great improvement there, just egts spike and more smoke so not sure if all is well.

[Ravewolf]

Well, the truck is back together, and I bled lines 1,3,and 4,getting good fuel. But it won't starts. The hell? I even tried using carb cleaner just to see if it would sputter, nothing. Yes, I disconnected the grid heater first before that. 

What gives? I reused the orings that were on the injector bodies because they were still brand new. They all clicked into place (by hand) tightly. I changed all the orings on the crossover tubes as well, and put them in with the injector hold downs off, that way I could make sure they were in the injector holes. Even took everything back apart, torqued the line nuts, then put the injector hold downs on, and torqued them to spec. 

Thought I might have fried my box again, but no dice with it disconnected. Everything appears to be hooked up correctly. 

Just keep cranking? Or? 

[dripley]

Boost leak comes to mind. You might recheck anything you took loose installing the injectors. Any possibility one set was not new but rebuilt? Just yhinking out loud.

This was for @WiscoRedkneck.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by dripley

[Ravewolf]

1 minute ago, dripley said:

Boost leak comes to mind. You might recheck anything you took loose installing the injectors. Any possibility one set was not new but rebuilt? Just yhinking out loud.

Checked three times. Was told the injectors were a few months old when I bought it. From the looks of things, the guy was right. The springs looked pretty solid in the injectors. Not much wear. Pintle needles were tight too. 

[dripley]

Just now, Ravewolf said:

Checked three times. Was told the injectors were a few months old when I bought it. From the looks of things, the guy was right. The springs looked pretty solid in the injectors. Not much wear. Pintle needles were tight too. 

Sorry that was @WiscoRedkneck. I did not your reply until after I posred.

 

5 minutes ago, Ravewolf said:

Well, the truck is back together, and I bled lines 1,3,and 4,getting good fuel. But it won't starts. The hell? I even tried using carb cleaner just to see if it would sputter, nothing. Yes, I disconnected the grid heater first before that. 

What gives? I reused the orings that were on the injector bodies because they were still brand new. They all clicked into place (by hand) tightly. I changed all the orings on the crossover tubes as well, and put them in with the injector hold downs off, that way I could make sure they were in the injector holes. Even took everything back apart, torqued the line nuts, then put the injector hold downs on, and torqued them to spec. 

Thought I might have fried my box again, but no dice with it disconnected. Everything appears to be hooked up correctly. 

Just keep cranking? 

You might the injector lines again and be sure you still have good fuel to them.  

[WiscoRedkneck]

Did you get it to start? Mine took a lot of convincing to get going again open one set of three lines crankit until fuel comes out close those open next 3 crank close after fuel present I left engine hook off but replaced bolts with spacer

@dripley you nailed it on my way home the intake horn to intercooler boot pipe clamp failed installed new nice and tight now much improved performance 

Edited April 8, 2019 by WiscoRedkneck

[Ravewolf]

24 minutes ago, WiscoRedkneck said:

Did you get it to start? Mine took a lot of convincing to get going again open one set of three lines crankit until fuel comes out close those open next 3 crank close after fuel present I left engine hook off but replaced bolts with spacer

Negative. Fuel to all the lines it seems, still won't fire. It's late here, sun's down, and I don't have a garage to work on it. Guess I'll try it Tuesday when I'm free again. 

[Evan]

I'd crack all six Fuel lines have a helper crank it over. As each line pushes fuel and air out then tightn it. Itl probly fire with 3  purged lines th eg n tighten the ones not tight yet and itl pick up those cylinders to.

Sometimes cracking just a couple isnt enough.

 

Make it easy to push the air out. It much easy for air to be pushed out with 6 lines to escape from

Edited April 8, 2019 by Evan