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2001.5 6 speed was driving home just fine when I noticed white smoke coming from the tailpipe.   If I hit the skinny pedal I got a lot of black smoke.   Pyros were a tad high but not dangerous.  Boost normal.  Fuel pressure normal.   Temperature oil pressure all normal.   Even felt like normal power.   Regardless took it easy for 5 miles to my driveway.   Shut it down.   Turned the key.  It fired up.   Same smoke issues.   Shut it down.   Turned the key.  It rolls over like there is no fuel.   Fuel pressure gauge is still good.  Popped the hood.  Recently had the fuel pressure gauge installed and noticed it was weeping a bit.   Thought maybe I was getting air in the fuel system.   Tightened up a few fittings then turned it over again.   Still sounds like no fuel.   Figured I may have lost prime.   Googled how to prime a vp44.   Saw a couple posts about loosening up injectors 1,3,4 and bumping the key to get fuel through.   So I loosened up 1,3,4 and bumped the starter.   I did not have any intention of holding for any length of time.  Just bumping it.   It sounded horrible.  Clunking.  Chunking.   I don’t know how to describe it.   So I tightened 1,3,4 back up and went back to the key.   Now my starter sounds like it won’t engage.   I pull the starter out and the shaft is broken in two.  Went to town.   Bought starter.  Installed starter.  Have not turned the key.  That’s where I’m at now.  Any advice?

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Try turning the engine over by hand (using a wrench of course) and see if there is any binding of the crankshaft while at the same time inspecting the teeth on the flywheel.   

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It sounds like you have 2 separate issues.  First thing you gotta do is get your starter operational and then you can move on to the smoke problem.

 

Regarding the starter...I would recommend what @IBMobilesaid about turning motor over by hand to make sure motor is not impeded in any way...cuz I've never heard of a starter shaft breaking without some other kind of motor problem.  Also to make sure that you didn't just put a brand new starter on a busted up flywheel.  Then check your oil for coolant contamination and your coolant for oil contamination (head gasket).  If all ok then crank on it to start.  If it doesn't start follow proper priming instructions in last paragraph and try again.  Then come back and do a better job of describing all aspects of the white smoke. 

 

Most popular causes of white smoke are busted injectors(s) or injection pump or busted head gasket...but there are other causes.

 

To properly prime by cracking injectors, loosen those same 3 injector caps you did by 1-1.25 turns.  Then lay on the starter rather than bumping until fuel leakage is seen at the loosened caps.  Then retighten caps, spin over until start and allow to idle for a few minutes. 

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Then inspect flywheel teeth for damage and check oil and coolant for contamination of one by the other.  If all good then see if she fires up.  If she does then describe everything you notice about the smoke in greater detail. 

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If I had to guess vp timing piston is sticking, usually it throws a code. You can put some 2 cycle oil in fuel and see if it helps. Or use biodiesel it should have plenty of lubrication without 2 cycle. 

Like other said it could be other issues. Doesn't take much water to make white smoke.

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Since there's no contamination in the fluids I'd look at fuel issues...injectors and injection pump.  If they are originals then the injectors are surely beat and the injection pump is not far from it.

 

If it's fuel related then fuel is being introduced to a cylinder(s) at a time when it's not supposed to be...timing issue.  If injection pump is causing that could be exactly what @Dieselfuturesaid above.  If injector(s) causing that could be cracked, broken, leaking, worn out. 

 

If it were the injection pump then a power loss would be felt since any timing issue would affect power.  Since you are not feeling a power loss the first thing I would look at is the injectors.  I would pull the injectors and inspect them visually.  If they look ok then have them tested by a shop. 

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I’m going to have it looked at but I am thinking injectors are due for a replacement.  I have the FASS platinum lift pump.  Stock turbo.   It is the high output 6 speed model.  I pull a 28 foot camper around the west and sometimes I’d like more power.   I’ve read a lot about the quadzilla paired with DAP 7 x 0.010 vco injectors.   Would this be good with a stock turbo?   I’m not addicted yet, so I don’t really want to upgrade a bunch of components.  But if I need new injectors and a quadzilla I’m wondering which injectors to get?   I have been searching for an old thread I read last year on here where mopar1973man and me78569 were discussing injectors and it seemed like 0.010 was a great size for a range of purposes if you had the quadzilla to tune it correctly.  Advice?   

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I'd say 7x10 with proper tuning be fine with stock turbo,  you'll never have to use wire tap, it'll have plenty on level 3 can buss only. As long as they are popped to 320-325 and I'd go with vcos. I had mine popped at 320 and first year they were awesome no my load sitting still in neutral has dropped to 5-7 from what I remember 10-12 meaning the pop pressure is going down, that's why next time I'm going to set them at 325bar. They still perform good just a little bit more smokey.

Your next step will be something like 62/68/12 goes good with 7x10 and quad, compounds be best if you got money.

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6 hours ago, trailhead said:

I’m going to have it looked at but I am thinking injectors are due for a replacement.  I have the FASS platinum lift pump.  Stock turbo.   It is the high output 6 speed model.  I pull a 28 foot camper around the west and sometimes I’d like more power.   I’ve read a lot about the quadzilla paired with DAP 7 x 0.010 vco injectors.   Would this be good with a stock turbo?   I’m not addicted yet, so I don’t really want to upgrade a bunch of components.  But if I need new injectors and a quadzilla I’m wondering which injectors to get?   I have been searching for an old thread I read last year on here where mopar1973man and me78569 were discussing injectors and it seemed like 0.010 was a great size for a range of purposes if you had the quadzilla to tune it correctly.  Advice?   

If you were already planning on getting new injectors then do it now to see if it fixes your smoke problem.  If not you have narrowed it down to the injection pump.

 

If you have the original HO pump that the six speeds came with it kinda sucks too.  The SO pump that came on every other truck besides the six speeds is a better choice.  If you end up having to replace the injection pump that's the route you want to go.

 

I wouldn't drive the truck until you fix it...other more catastrophic damage can be done by doing that. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Injector 6 was in bad shape when they removed it.  I believe the word he used was exploded.  I’m going to go get a look at it.  Doing compression test tomorrow.  Thanks for your feedback  

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1 hour ago, trailhead said:

Injector 6 was in bad shape when they removed it.  I believe the word he used was exploded.  I’m going to go get a look at it.  Doing compression test tomorrow.  Thanks for your feedback  

Well that's good news...if your 6 hole is ok of course.  At least you know it's not the injection pump.  And you were thinking about new injectors anyway...so it's like perfect timing (no pun intended).  

Edited by Bullet
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Compression test came back 420 for cylinders 1-5 and 450 for cylinder 6.  The #6 injector tip is broken.  I’ll try to upload a picture. Time to make a final decision on which injectors for increased towing power with a stock turbo.    

5E6608FB-A29F-4A0C-9778-9E1843DF93DA.jpeg

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On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 4:14 PM, trailhead said:

So I loosened up 1,3,4 and bumped the starter.   I did not have any intention of holding for any length of time.  Just bumping it.   It sounded horrible.  Clunking.  Chunking.   I don’t know how to describe it.   So I tightened 1,3,4 back up and went back to the key.   Now my starter sounds like it won’t engage.   I pull the starter out and the shaft is broken in two.

 

As hindsight, I think that you may have had a hydrostatic lock caused by a severely leaking #6 injector.  While you were having trouble starting the engine, lots of fuel could have leaked from the injector and collected in #6 cylinder.  Then, when cranking the engine over, the fuel wouldn't compress and caused a hydrostatic lock - consequently, the horrible sounds and the starter shaft breaking.  By the time you replaced the starter, the fuel leaked out of the cylinder via the end gaps of the piston rings.  It would also explain why the compression is higher in #6 cylinder than the rest of the cylinders - some residual fuel is hanging around the compressions rings.

 

As others have pointed out, starter shafts just don't break...

 

- John

 

 

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Ouch...yep that'd do it.  Tip is completely gone...that's the bare pintle sticking out...holy cow!  So it was basically just unloading a full line of fuel into the cylinder each time...and that's the longest line. 

 

Compression test is good news...maybe some build up inside of hole six is the reason for higher compression there...like what's on the tip of that busted injector.

 

7x.010's are as big as you want to go if towing but I'd feel more comfortable with a little bigger turbo at that size...or at the very least with a competent tuner like a Quad. 

3 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

 

As hindsight, I think that you may have had a hydrostatic lock caused by a severely leaking #6 injector.  While you were having trouble starting the engine, lots of fuel could have leaked from the injector and collected in #6 cylinder.  Then, when cranking the engine over, the fuel wouldn't compress and caused a hydrostatic lock - consequently, the horrible sounds and the starter shaft breaking.  By the time you replaced the starter, the fuel leaked out of the cylinder via the end gaps of the piston rings.  It would also explain why the compression is higher in #6 cylinder than the rest of the cylinders - some residual fuel is hanging around the compressions rings.

 

As others have pointed out, starter shafts just don't break...

 

- John

 

 

Good call...I didn't think about that but it makes perfect sense with the snapped starter shaft and the higher compression reading. 

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I appreciate the help and the quick responses.  Here's what I'm thinking.  

 

Option 1:  Stock injectors with a Quadzilla.  Maybe that would give me the bump I want when towing.  

 

Option 2:  Something like the RV 275 injectors and no tuner.  

 

Option 3:  07 x 010 with Quadzilla and hope my stock turbo will suffice.  Probably will need to get studs.  

 

I really just want a reliable truck that can pull my RV around the mountains and will pull a larger RV if I ever upgrade.  Thanks for the insights.  

 

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32 minutes ago, trailhead said:

I appreciate the help and the quick responses.  Here's what I'm thinking.  

 

Option 1:  Stock injectors with a Quadzilla.  Maybe that would give me the bump I want when towing.  

 

Option 2:  Something like the RV 275 injectors and no tuner.  

 

Option 3:  07 x 010 with Quadzilla and hope my stock turbo will suffice.  Probably will need to get studs.  

 

I really just want a reliable truck that can pull my RV around the mountains and will pull a larger RV if I ever upgrade.  Thanks for the insights.  

 

Re option 1:  good option...definitely more power.  But I would still go a little bigger on the injectors since you gotta get new ones anyway...maybe some 7x.0085's (+75hp).

 

Re option 2:  not really gonna give you the extra power your looking for...just a small increase and still constrained by stock tuning. 

 

Re option 3:  most powerful option and would probably be ok egt wise if tuned properly but I would feel better with a little more turbo if towing.  It sure would be fun as hell to drive without a load though.

 

You would not need studs with a stock turbo.  I personally don't think studs are necessary unless you are boosting more than 45lbs.  Even then some people retorque the stock headbolts a little tighter than factory spec and still push 50lbs without issue.  But I'm not one of those guys. 

Edited by Bullet
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Good choice...you'll be very satisfied with the extra power.

 

I don't run a Quad...I personally prefer more power :stirthepot:, reliability :nadkick:, ease of use :poke: and ease of install :tongue: out of my electronics so I went with a Smarty/TST Comp stack instead.  But with all that reluctantly said on here :moon:, the Quad is the best raw tuning platform but does have a learning factor involved and is definitely more complicated...and a more difficult install with all the gauges and sensors.  However there is no better place to be than this forum for Quad support and tutelage.  These dudes really know it well.:hug:

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RV275's and a an edge ez or something similar are a good bump in power  and will tow well unless you want to climb the 6% hill going 65mph. All of this power stuff is just a matter of what you want. You are the one who gets to choose. If I missed your goals here I will be quiet.

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