Quadzilla stumbles @ max TPS WT %

[Mopar1973Man]

As long as the Quadzilla is displaying 100% Engine Load or 4095 Fuel Number then its maxed out nothing more can be done. The rest of the time is based on how long does it take to spool the twins turbos your running. The boost number is what is unlocking the tune to fuel more with the wiretap. I would be looking at how much retard at the hit of WOT. This is what builds boost quickly. @Me78569 tune is starting out at 16* which is pretty tall amount at 1,500 RPM you'll have to play with the reduct settings and see if you can dip the timing down quickly build boost and pop back up on top with full advancement. This will take a bit of the time out. 

[Me78569]

21 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

Blue bar is canbus OF for over fuel. How is that actually calculated? I understand it's more light switchy, thats kinda common sense, but my from my angle if she will take the fuel and burn it, I want to give it everything she will take to reduce the amount of time it takes for maximum power. Thats for a max effort tune, atleast. Im general what im getting at is perhaps in a race (not that I race) you could shave 1sec or a half sec delay/ reaction time off by making it fuel harder/faster. Unless when u floor it the ecm really has no different reacting time to the fueling, you just have more resolution in the fueling from the pedal and the tenth of a sec difference from half throttle and max throttle when flooring it

More fuel != faster.    Generally speaking once you have black smoke you are not actually getting full burn.   you are air limited offidle so you will only burn what you have air for.  

 

The graph is showing 2 runs overlayed, 1 run with a "max effort" 1 run with a daily smoke free tune.   both runs are 0-60 mph snap to WOT run same stretch of road same day back to back. 

 

blue columns are the fueling command for the overfueled datalog, green are the fueling commands for the smoke free tune,   Both tunes comand peak duration by line 17.  however if you look at the other data points on the graph you can see that mph, boost, rpms all mirror each other when comparing 1 run to another.     There is no difference in the 0-60 time between the runs.  

 

This tells us that even though the max effort tune was throwing %100 of the possible fuel at the engine offidle it didn't actually make the truck faster.

 

 

The key is the right amount of fuel at the right time.   It makes your truck less scary, smoother, less smokey, but not really any slower on a street driven truck.     Daily driving the overfueled tune "feels" faster, but that is %100 in the brain.  your brain says wow the truck is fast at only %30 throttle, however you brain doesn't know that %30 throttle is actually = %80 on the smoke free tune.     all you are doing by running a max effort tune is shifting fueling related to tps input down in the map.  As we see in your datalogs when you are at peak rpms using only %40 throttle you are actually not even getting full fuel because the ecm sees you are only at %40 throttle.   

 

 

If you think my datalogs are incorrect I encourage you to go out with a Max effort tune again on lvl 3 only and from a standstill go WOT, then use a clean tune and repeat.  send over the datalogs and we can look at this.  I am willing to bet that your max effort tune is no faster than a smoke free tune.  

 

 

Your butt dyno says otherwise, but your butt dyno is lying.   The butt dyno doesn't tell you how much power you have only how rapidly the torque curve changes.  An abrupt change feels like a lot, but a smooth linear ramp up does not.     

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Me78569

[rogerash0]

Na, you have me wrong if you think I'm doubting your the logs. I wouldn't hang around if I thought you or your data was bad.

 

I will day my butt dyno was correct that timing lvl2 was faster, cleaner amd better than timing 4 or 5 on the Edge, we proved that on the firepunk dyno,  and almost everyone would have said Im wrong about that. 

 

I also understand and appreciate smooth useable power and I understand the perception of hard hitting power. I ride dirt bikes a lot, often on slick hard pack surfaces where power delivery/throttle application and engine character are key. 

 

I like that you have logs and data to prove what your saying. Louder pipes or more smoke or a harder hitting tune dont really make me think **** is faster. 

 

I've wanted to use more TPS all along for years now because I want my trans to see more theottle input to help delay shifts, so that rpm stays up and smoke stays down. I fought stack shifting and bad shifting patterns for a long time and eventually narrowed it down to a TV bracket that needed bent back proper down at the trans.

Edited July 10, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

No saying you don't beieve me just that I encourage everyone to datalog, as my datalogs are my datalogs and don't means every truck  is the same.       lol I come off a little bit of an *** sometimes 

 

 

 

Run that tune I posted that starts in the mid 70's on level 3 and lets see if we can get %100 throttle to give us a nice curve with %100 duration.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Me78569

[rogerash0]

Its mutual.

 

Moving on, we got good data logs.  I did floor it.. i had to take it on the interstate to hit OD. Otherwise max boost i made by reported 75mph (65 in reality) was 30psi.

 

lvl 3 was pretty weak for a 600hp rwhp truck.  lvl 5 is a lot stronger up top..

 

Interesting data,  boost shows 4psi then 21psi next line down and its maxed canbus just about (200 shy?) At 21psi.

 

I have two pulls, both interstate,  both to a reported 95 and 97 mph.

 

The higher MPH pull, 97 mph i think, was on lvl 3. Here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z7PMzpMqopx-XrfltnErZthtEMV5VCoS/view?usp=drivesdk

 

The lower MPH pull, 95 mph i think,  was on lvl5. Here:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z82ULzarFKmrh5TnRwlLL5E5Usp1Zaxj/view?usp=drivesdk

 

Remember my speedo reads probably 13-14mph fast at "95 mph". When the 35s go back on it will probably be just right. I forgot to pull the cal out before selling the smarty.

Edited July 11, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

Ill look on sunday.  If boost jumps from 4 to 20 psi i know something is up with the map circuit.

[rogerash0]

I noticed on your tune that my drive to boost pressure is not so 1:1 after 20psi. It was spiking to 60psi drive at 40psi boost and then leveling back out like perhaps the wastegate is "lazy". Its a spring wastegate from stainless diesel 

 

Sub 25 psi and it looks to stay 1:1 tho. I didnt get a good look at the manual gauges at all on those pulls bc traffic was bad.

 

Max boost on lvl 5 reported on the datalog was 40. Id like to do it again and record the manual gauges with chest mount go pro bc i bet the manual gauge would have showed 50-55psi.

Edited July 11, 2020 by rogerash0

[24vcumminspower]

so you still have a smarty tune on your truck?

[rogerash0]

No, if i did, I would have disclosed it. And, if i sold it with the tune on my truck it would be useless for the next guy. Plus I'd probably be getting max canbus. It leaves the speedo calibration in there after u remove the smarty. Something I didn't think of at the time. And quad and edges tuners have never fixed my speedo with their "wheel size calibration", no matter how many times I've tried.

Edited July 12, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

Well the lvl 3 log and the lvl 5 log you are hitting max duration now.  WOT is critical for that then.   however your lvl 3 log should be should 60+ psi even without wiretap  not peaking at 28 psi.   Either your map sensor is not working %100 right or you have a major boost leak.  given that your EGT's are hovering around 1100*f at wot I am going to assume your map sensor is just not reading like it should be and boost is a lot higher than what the quad is reading.  

 

 

 

 

[24vcumminspower]

9 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

No, if i did, I would have disclosed it. And, if i sold it with the tune on my truck it would be useless for the next guy. Plus I'd probably be getting max canbus. It leaves the speedo calibration in there after u remove the smarty. Something I didn't think of at the time. And quad and edges tuners have never fixed my speedo with their "wheel size calibration", no matter how many times I've tried.

 oh sorry did not realize that smarty left in speedo calibration when returned to stock my apologies that is nice to know

[rogerash0]

Hopefully the new sensor fixes the issue. If not I'm probably up **** creek with a paddle, eh? Lol. It definitely doesn't have a boost leak, thats according to Drew at d&j, too. If i can make 60psi on level 3 I might be in for a real treat. Otherwise maybe I need to swap the edge back on to see if its a weird box problem, but i know that's about a 1% chance probably. 

 

 

[rogerash0]

I got the new sensor put in and will have the time to post another WOT run here on weds, thurs or Friday.

[rogerash0]

Ok new oem cummins map sensor installed.. running me's tune he posted earlier in the thread.

 

I noticed that when driving normally, when i see 10psi on the manual boost gauge the quad is reading 5, even with the new oem cummins MAP sensor. When its showing 18psi on the manual gauges, the quad will show 11. Eventually the digital boost gauge catches up, for example, on a WOT pull shown in the datalogs here, I see 44psi on the manual gauge (60psi of drive for a moment bc it spikes) and 41psi as a recorded max on the quad.

 

I also loaded my extreme extreme tune but with min tps at 0 and max tps at 100 and it doesnt fall on its face (and seemingly glitch out) that way. I achieved the same total boost.

 

I know my total boost would be higher with the .80ar housing on the 62mm SXE . Its got the .70ar housing on there. 

 

I suppose this data log doesnt show 4th gear locked,  ill have to jump on the interstate again to get max boost in 4th gear locked. I betcha at 42psi/WOT that im not even in the pedal long enough for 3rd gear to lock up. Oh well .. its just not easy to do where I live right now due to traffic and cops. I'm on a peninsula...

iQuad-2020-07-29-09.13.227996391603758438680.csv

Edited July 29, 2020 by rogerash0

[Mopar1973Man]

Mine is the reverse. The bottom end from 0 to about 20 to 25 PSI is good but beyond that I know my turbo tops out at 47 PSI roughly and the Quad logs that I reached 69 PSI. Tried two different MAP sensors (2001 which is installed) and my OE 2002 Sensor both react roughly the same. 

 

Weird... I've more or less given up on boost accuracy.   

[rogerash0]

Hmm.. yeah I feel like it means I need to run an abnormally aggressive fuel table since I'm flowing 10psi when the computer/quad thinks I'm flowing 5psi. I'll probably have to go out at 11pm to get a good 4th gear pull.

 

My lockup switch was making the solenoid tick when the truck was turned off so I got rid of it, becsuse eventually lockup went away and quit working (then magically came back several days lster), but maybe ill tap into the trans wire down at the trans instead of up at the PCM and i can find another switch to try.

Edited July 29, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

Issue here is until 16 psi the quadzilla is reading %100 of the boost value from the ecm rather than the sensor.   

 

The value you see on the quad is what the ecm is seeing for boost.  

 

I have seen this a few times before, but I dont remember what solution if any there was.  a move agressive fuel curve will help the power, but the root issue still exists.  

@mopar1973man what would be the cause of a lazy map sensor in terms of voltage?  I can't remember if it is a pull down or pull up sensor?  

 

could voltage be low on the source 5v wire and cause this?  or maybe voltage loss on the sense wire?  or a poor ground?  

 

 

[rogerash0]

I have gone over the grounds on this truck like a slave. W-t ground mod helped the most. Ive also ditched the grid heater, my theory is it was responsible for all my dead alternators (including new bosch ones). I know it stays on until you eclipse 10, 15 or 20mph, I can't recall the exact speed.

 

Also today I had 18-19psi fuel pressure, it dropped to 10psi at WOT, and I had 13.7v.

[rogerash0]

Here's a pull from today thats a little shorter than the one in the data log.

 

Very bottom gauge is the s475, showing a max of 23psi.

 

Middle gauge is drive pressure for the 62mm SXE. I want to say it drops back down to 40-45psi once the WG opens, but i should get it on camera to know for sure.

 

Top gauge is overall boost which is out of focus unfortunately, but looks to be 44psi +/-1psi.

Edited July 29, 2020 by rogerash0

[Me78569]

the issue is the ECM isn''t seeing accurate boost.  That's where the fueling starts.  

 

you can tweak the bottom end to make up for this, but you will loose a lot of smoothness.