What happened to our political parties?

[That Guy]

I'll start by saying that I'm a bit divided between elephants, donkeys, and porcupines(libertarians). 

 

At one point, voting for a democrat or republican wasn't based on religion, guns, or even immigration. At least they hadn't been boiled down into yes/no objects that started as incredibly complex issues. 

 

I was given my first shotgun when I was about 4 years old. I have never had an issue with guns, and fully back the second amendment. I also believe there are a lot of people out there who probably shouldn't have guns. I won't say much, but I will say that I have a widow maker in the center console/sunglass holder/in between the seats of all my vehicles. I don't flaunt it, and occasionally it ends up in my back pocket when going certain places. I'm not concealed carry certified, and as far as I'm concerned, if I ever have to use it, it won't matter. I doubt someone who wishes me harm is going to give me much concession. I was taught that a gun is not a deterrent, it is a last resort, you better be willing to use it and shoot to kill because arms/legs are considered torture.

 

I say that to say that I do not support either the Dems or GOP with how they desire to slowly erode the ability to own weapons. The flip side, It is completely legal for me to own suppressor equipt fully automatic belt fed heavy machine guns. I can even own opperable artillery and tank destroyers. But only if I pay a $200 fee and go through a 6 month background check. I'm clean, so no worries. 

 

 

On religion, I do not understand the desire for it to be taught in schools or why Republicans push so hard for it. I know that Reagan pretty much destroyed the gentlemen's' agreement to not bring religion into a presidential race. Up till then, it didn't matter. I don't understand religion in schools because, look at how bad the education system is at large.... is that where we want our children to get their morals? Isn't that what sunday school and church is for? My family taught me morals and the bible, though I have my own opinions about it, I also do not agree with forcing evangelical (what most seem to push for) ideas upon protestants or catholics. I don't even want to get into the hebrew/christian/muslim mess and thats ignoring a lot. 

 

But really, we lost our way on that one. Religion should not be entangled with fiscal policy or national defence.

 

 

Immigration, well, that's a bit more complex. Yes we are primarily a nation of past immigrants. I believe our immigration system is very broken. Years back the Republicans pushed for a family based system with a set number of vouchers to each country of origin. (If I remember correctly, there are currently 550,000 vouchers divided among the 190ish countries every year. Most go to european countries.)The idea being that they would keep families together. This was in opposition to the Democrats who wanted a heavily merit based system. The republicans of the time (pre civil rights) feared that this would mean that a massive number of non whites would immigrate here because of merit. Ultimately, it kind of backfired upon the republicans because if you get one family member hear, it puts the other on an express route. 

 

I think the democrats are very wrong with their want to open borders and basically open the flood gates. The republicans are wrong in their belief that all immigrants are democrats. I know several middle eastern and mexican immigrants that are hard core republicans on most issues. In fact, most of the middle easterners who renounced their foreign citizenship are very republican on most things. These people are professors, engineers, and doctors. 

 

 

To kind of sum it up, The republicans are the party that freed the slaves, built the panama canal and the interstate system, and opened the world to globalization. The democrats pulled us out of the great depression and dropped both atomic bombs......... It truly worries me how far both parties have fallen from what they were. 

 

The thing that scares me the most though, there seem to be a lot of democrats and republicans who would be totally okay with a single party state with the way they vehemently oppose one another ....... and we spent almost all of the 20th century fighting places that had single parties and monarchies. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Valid points mentioned in your post. 

 

Personally I'm not a democrat at all. I would say currently I'm leaning towards Republican. I'm not going to say that Trump is the answer either but it better than anything the Democrats have to place for a President position. Kind of like trucks most of us like the Dodge Cummins we could tear each and every brand apart and pick out the good and bad just like Presidents. 

 

I'm also a concealed carry permit holder. I'm fine with the 2nd Amendment its clear on what the law is. Yes I agree people with mental illness or mental disability should not be allowed to have firearms. But remember criminals will never abide by the laws either hence why they are called "criminals". 

 

I can say what immigration did to my old neighborhood. I left Mission Hills CA back in 1990. Now today is destroyed. It nothing but homeless living on the sideways and anywhere they can. I'm glad I left that state. Everything is over taxed and too expensive still selling fuel down there at $4.00 and up. 

 

 

[That Guy]

There was a time when both parties didn't have quite such a wide spread, they shared the same goal of upholding the constitution. 

 

So, as someone who actually lived through the times in which I believe was a time of great change in politics, what do you think? My research seems to point to it starting around Nixon or Ford and was a slow progression to the point we are now. Politics has always been politics, but at one point we were all americans. 

 

On the note of Trump, I have a friend who is in his 70's, high society type. He is was very much for Trump and against Pelosi, Clinton, and Obama. He claims he won't vote Trump a second term, but he also won't vote Biden. He isn't alone among staunch republicans that I know. I find that interesting no matter how you slice it. I did like the idea of Trump, in practice, I'm not sold. I consider myself to be moderate mostly. But damn..... can we not get a presidential candidate who actually appeals to more that 51% of voters? Afterall, "the republic for which we stand" is supposed to mean that the simple majority cannot overthrow the rights of the minority. In a democracy, simple majority rules. 

 

I like the republican ideals of free enterprise and small government(seem to have forgotten the latter). And social security and medicare and such are huge drains on the budget. There are examples of it working properly, such as railroad retirement board, who actually helped fund WWII.

 

There does seem to be a lot of incompetence within the government, that isn't aimed at anyone in particular, the US government is the single largest employer on the planet at 9.1 million. Walmart has 2.1 million world wide by comparison.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Since I'm at a level of Govt that working with the cities gov't and fire gov't agencies. I try to do what I can to better the local area. Right now the local USFS is making it impossible to interface with our local fire dept. I always thought to start at home and work with what you got around you to make changes. 

 

I'm more or less tired of the BS and lies that the media and the Gov't is throwing out. I realize the COVID-19 is real and does pose a problem but I don't think its worth shutting down the world.

 

Even my world I'm looking to converting to more web base commerce. I'm already doing all my billing through the website and processing payments for job through the site. I can email billing to people and they can pay through the payment portal of the website. Slowly getting my own business rocking now. Thanks to Eileen @Wet Vette for handling the invoicing and bills for the business. 

 

The other thing I've seen with my two eyes was my trip down to Mohave Valley, AZ. Did a A/C job for Codie down there. California has taxed R134a Freon so bad that its $26.00 a can 12oz. Then add another $10 core charge per can. That was $103 before taxes for three 12 oz can of R134a freon. Now got to Bullhead City, AZ and freon is only $5.99 a 12oz can no core charge either. This is your democrat laws that has changed California forever.  This is that "Green New Deal" crap the democrats dreamed up. 

 

Let me circle back to Federal Gov't crap. Now fire season is coming o Idaho things are drying out and fires are starting. If the green new deal is about reducing carbon emissions then USFS should now be playing "Fire Manager". What they do is allow the fire to continue burning till end of season when weather puts it out like a rain storm. This load the sky around here with thick smoke and make is difficult to breathe even.  This is LEGAL... But now your going to complain about the diesel truck emitting a bit of black smoke? That is talking out both sides of your mouth. I say curb the USFS and tell them to stomp out the fires than playing fire manager and push it around with senseless back fires and control burns. Another waste of taxes...

[JAG1]

Can't let the 'green new deal' take away our economy. This eco squad is dangerously extreme, doesn't consider all the trade offs and will hurt a lot of families, peoples lives with their policies. Next the Dems are too sneaky, dark, will push money grabbing policy under this 'new deal'. It's nothing but a bunch of horse chit because there is no way you can change peoples basic needs that will always impact the rest of the planet.

 

 Any extreme new deal to reduce climate change will only stall the problem for a day by comparison. Back in the 70's they were talking about high taxes as a way to reduce consumption. Raise prices so high that waste and pollution will be reduced. Imagine rich retirement benefit packages as compared to those in an oppressed poverty stricken private sector.

 

I am a Trumper all the way. So what if he's a rich guy...... I see the writing on the wall from A.O.C., Obama and Pelosi. Their policies hurt my wife and me in the past cause we pay our taxes, work hard and are honest people. We can't have that same situation where we can't afford the income tax because we just get by paying for our basic needs. This time around it will get worse if Biden gets in there. Believe me, it will be a lot worse.

Edited August 7, 2020 by JAG1

[That Guy]

Gents, this is good stuff. I genuinely appreciate the insight of people in different positions than myself. Politically, I'm happy to live in states that are about 50-70% red. 

 

Any drastic change in american consumption is going to require a massive change in the ideology and culture similar to the Great Depression. A government cannot simply mandate people be more frugal with money. And I would be willing to bet that the entire argument against taxing things so people consume less is (back in the 70's as you said) was that it was one of the reasons the US exists in its current form. Taxation will absolutely decrease the demand for some items, not other. Fuel is short term price inelastic, so huge tax wouldn't affect demand in the short term, but would have drastic consequences in the long term. I have been rather fortunate to live in places with some of the cheapest fuel prices in the country. It's a shame California is so beautiful in places, and yet so very invasive upon freedoms.

 

I don't believe in another "new deal". That was a one time shot to stabilize the economy indefinitely, and it very much has. We haven't gone into recessions and depressions of the same severity or frequency as before (every 4-7 years). I believe that people shouldn't be allowed to dump oil and antifreeze down a storm drain and that litter is horrible, but not some of the hypocrisy prevalent in CA. A guy got fined because he removed his grass to save the scarce water, he put brick in for his 1/8th acre of grass and was fined like $2000 and told to put the grass back. Took the city to court and lost. If these people seriously think that climate change is a huge problem...... we need some clouds to reflect that heat. Put sulfur back into diesel fuel. Damn a little bit of acid rain, better than drought. 

 

I personally never cared about Trump being rich..... or even clean. You would have a very hard time finding anyone in the capitol who is neither of the two. He has done what I think he would have done and at a rate that I expected. 

 

Circling back around, we are far from what we once were. It's a good thing we don't get the full government that we pay for, that would be hell.

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, That Guy said:

I personally never cared about Trump being rich..... or even clean. You would have a very hard time finding anyone in the capitol who is neither of the two.

 

Exactly correct answer. 

 

I seem to be doing the right thing. I've got a endless supply of water being my irrigation water is from a creek up behind the house. Then the extra pressure is used in my hydro generator to produce a small amount of power. Then solar panels in the front yard. Then my water is pump right out of the ground in my 50 foot well in the yard. Brilliant photo eh? Clear skies, clean water, and green yard. Right of the photo there is apple trees, then bottom edge there is blackberries outside my front door. 

 

 

Like other things if done responsibly you can do a lot to change thing around you. Biggest thing is everyone wants to jump to the top of the Gov't pile and change things directly. I'm proud that our fore fathers understood enough to write the constitution. Now you have people hoping to jump to the top (democrats) and turn everything up side down. I make my stand with my local fire dept and local Gov't agencies. I do all I can to make changes for the good for even my local community. 

 

Here is a good example of Liberal stupidity. Payette Forest charges $20 for 2 cords of firewood. Now they provide a cutting map to tell you which area you can cut and what size trees or... Etc. Not to mention Payette forest goes around labeling trees as a Wildlife Tree and do not cut down. This is liberal controlled forest. 

 

Now go north to Nezperce Forest its $20 for 4 cords and any dead tree is open game.  No stupid wildlife sign, no species limitations, no cutting maps. Now this is the best option because now everyone is cleaning up all the dead fall or dead standing trees. Needless to say this helps to keep fires from spreading. Where Payette forest has problems with controlling fires. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[That Guy]

Wait..... $20 dollars for FOUR cords of wood????? It's $50 in Tennessee at a minimum and there are no places to collect it yourself like out there. And in Louisiana...... Easily $100-150. And Louisiana is a huge producer of lumber. I'm pretty sure it is illegal to go collect wood in the Cherokee National Forest that isn't already dead. That's the closest government owned woods to me. Everything else is all privately owned.

 

You have amazing property Mr. Mopar, and I'll have to pick your brain about that hydroelectric setup. I almost decided to go to school for civil or electrical engineering.

[Mopar1973Man]

20 hours ago, That Guy said:

You have amazing property Mr. Mopar, and I'll have to pick your brain about that hydroelectric setup. I almost decided to go to school for civil or electrical engineering.

 

30 years of work and effort. I'vew only got 400w of solar on the house which I want to upgrade. Then I've got a small 200w hydro generator. I've only got a 4,000 watt inverter (120 VAC). I added a step up transformer to give 220V power for the well pump. The water heater is converter to 110VAC and 1,100 watt elements. 

 

I even have a mini setup in the RV with 1,200 watt inverter, 35w solar panels. We have stay out for 3 night already and been charging the batteries with just solar.

 

20 hours ago, That Guy said:

Wait..... $20 dollars for FOUR cords of wood?????

 

Yes sir. I know a few cheats to making that permit give me more too. Not legal methods but I know how to get more bang for my buck. Yes our trees must be dead to harvest for firewood. Now if it a storm fallen tree where the root wad is attached then you can harvest green trees but that sucks because it much heavier wet and green. 

 

Personally American Citizen should be permitted by right to harvest any dead and downed tree for heating and cooking purpose without a permit. We have already paid taxes for the USFS and gov't agencies. Why do I need ot pay more fees for something I've already been taxed for? I should not have to pay fees to enter state parks as a US citizen. Kind of why I'll be posting up all my hidden hide-a-ways where I go camping without fees or permits. Just started my post on Brush Creek.

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I should not have to pay fees to enter state parks as a US citizen. Kind of why I'll be posting up all my hidden hide-a-ways where I go camping without fees or permits. Just started my post on Brush Creek.

Yes...... It was $35 to enter the Grand Canyon. I have a few camping spots back in TN/NC/SC that are in free to stay at. Granted, I do not have a camper yet, in the market for one though. 

 

Knowing what the national budget is divided up into is a scary prospect. About 2/3rds is either social services or payments on debts. 

[Mopar1973Man]

12 hours ago, That Guy said:

About 2/3rds is either social services or payments on debts.

 

Yeah if we are late on our debts the banks take you home, possibly your car. If the Gov't is late no problem just add it to the national debt. That is the part that pisses me off I work hard for the money I do earn I just get sick and tired of the Democrats wanting to give it away to illegal aliens in the form of free health care, free housing assistance etc. Like myself since I own land I do not qualify for any assistance I have to sell my home first. Just like I found out for my cancer treatment. 74,000 dollars and there is no assistance program for me because of the fact I own a house. I manged to bargain with the hospital to knock it down to 19,xxx roughly but must pay it off in 2 years. If not I might lose my home over it. Now the gov't is will to give away homes to illegal's and pay there bill (water, power ,etc.) Why isn't the gov't helping to take care of the citizens? Why is the Democrats screwing with the stimulus checks and holding them up?

12 hours ago, That Guy said:

I have a few camping spots back in TN/NC/SC that are in free to stay at.

 

I'm going to do a full series of camping spots in Idaho that are free. I'm going to show off out to do camping for cheap or free. USFS that ask for fees are getting too much. It's not like your going to get full hook up or trash services. You get a little slice of ground and close neighbor. No water, no sewer, no power,etc. for as high as $50 bucks in some place in Idaho. For that much you can rent a flea bag hotel. Again why do we have to be taxes again for sleeping in a pad of dirt, no services? Not to mention any campground with a gate right now is closed up and locked. COVID-19 you can't camp close together. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Mopar1973Man