All sorts of problems w/quad download

[LorenS]

The weep hole lets air out after such things as a filter change. Bump starter, lift pump runs and pushes air out to return line to tank. I wouldn't install one without the hole, but for $80 I might also find a way to drill it!

Edited October 15, 2020 by LorenS

[wil440]

Don't use it if it doesn't have a weep hole. I have tested my truck with the return line extended into the filler neck and it returns a substantial amount of fuel back to tank even at idle. Genuine Cummins valve is £6.95 here in the UK 

BTW both old and new were the same 

[dieseldon]

Thanks for the replys, no one's ever used one of those aftermarket valves? Or drilled the weep hole? Don't think it would be too difficult, but I don't want to ruin and then un- returnable.

 

Wil440, $10 bucks, must be nice!

 

So strange, Price's on web anywhere from $12 to $100 and most don't show a weep hole.

 

 Might search around tomorrow, I don't want to wait a week and don't want to pay $10-$20 shipping!

  Thanks again!

[LorenS]

For reference for anyone who stumbles on this thread, check out this article to learn more.

https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/24-valve-2nd-generation_50/51_engine/59_fuel/bosch-vp44-injection-pump-overflow-valve-r19/

[wil440]

I looked at a lot of pictures of the valve a few months ago when I replaced mine (nothing wrong with old one ) and most had no bleed, I got the same Bosch valve as original and it had a bleed.

I have done extensive testing on my truck with the fuel return sitting in the filler neck so I can see whats going on, my truck idles at 8psi, the overflow valve is brand new Bosch, the little bleed hole sends a substantial amount of fuel back to tank even at 8psi

My pressures are 8psi idle,  1000rpm 12 to 14psi, 2k rpm 25psi. My main fuel pressure regulator is open at 25psi.

My fuel temp never goes over 120f

If I restrict my return line slightly fuel pressure would take the face off the gauge by   1000rpm

[dieseldon]

I'm idleing around 16-18 psi, I thought it has been established to have it cranked up, assuming you/we have after market lift pumps, airdog, fass, etc. Then fuel is being returned constantly? Hence do I need bleed hole?

C'mon fuel gurus, chime in please!

 

Thanks!

[LorenS]

5 minutes ago, dieseldon said:

I'm idleing around 16-18 psi

If your Chinese pressure relief actually blows off at 14 PSI, then your 16 PSI of fuel coming up the fuel line should push the air out of the pressure relief valve.  That bleed hole is critical for those whose pumps don't always put out enough pressure to open the relief.  For example, stock lift pumps and sometimes my frame mounted DDRP - though not since I installed a much bigger, frame mounted spin-on 140 micro screen instead of the little inline style.

 

I'm surprised more guys/gals have not messed around with changing that relief valve to something fancier.  We screw around with EVERYTHING else on the truck, but not that - why?  Surely Holley (etc.) makes an aftermarket unit that would do the same thing but better (more accurate, more stable, rebuildable, Chrome Plated, yada yada yada). Alternatively, installed a solenoid or 4-20mA motorized valve that would be operated off of fuel temperature in the injection pump.

[dieseldon]

LorenS, thanks for the input!

I just installed  Airdogs relatively newer frame mounted 4g raptor 150 that doesn't come with the fancy, (and expensive) filter & air separator,(uses stock filter, anywho, that frame mounted filter you're talking about sounds interesting, is it cleanable, how often? got a name/link?

 

  Thanks!

[LorenS]

@dieseldonit's nothing fancy, but here is what I installed, with part numbers!

 

[dieseldon]

New return valve didn't seem to change anything,.

However I now have new concerns after apparently losing prime it was next to impossible to restart, I cracked fuel lines and what not but my batteries and starter took a beating, cranked for approx 5sec, and cranking almost comes to stop and starter smoking! Let set 5-10 no charger and try again, took about 6-7 attempts. Batteries were fully charged, load test passed, although barely,  I think looking back at those hard starts maybe wasn't cranking as fast as it should?

Time to investigate condition of starter?

  Maybe just get new batteries to start with since I have that extra $300 laying around collecting dust, then rebuild/replace starter, then on to the next problem. ?

Decisions.....!

[LorenS]

7 hours ago, dieseldon said:

then on to the next problem

? Yep.

[dieseldon]

Well, I finally think I got my slow starting sorted out, new batteries, (which really didn't help, but were marginal anyhow) turned out to be the starter, which I found out prior owner put in POS aftermarket ?! Anyhow, don't have money for batteries plus new starter so decided to disassemble this one and clean up and lube for the fun of it, was definitely worth doing, turns the engine 2-3 times faster now and fire's right up now even when warm!

 

Almost afraid to bring up again, but still wondering why using i-quad's fast idle (warm-up mode) sets off check engine light and other issues I described at beginning of post??

So apparently all our trucks have high idle mode software built-in, Question:  was mine ever activated by prior owner? If yes I've got problems if I want to use i-quad's? If I had to guess, no I don't think so, it was bone stock from the guy I bought it from, (original owner)

Again, never had it come on since I've owned.

 

Does anyone know in laymen's terms if I can figure this out and actually use i-quad's warm-up mode without expensive diagnostic equipment or going to dealership or ???

Or just don't use?? Bummer!

 

  Thanks!

[LorenS]

Wish I could help, but I'm clueless on this matter.  I hope you get an answer as I find this mystery very interesting!

[Mopar1973Man]

All I can say is turn off the Quad high idle or turn off the ECM software. If you want the Quad which is only 6 CYL you'll need to turn off the ECM software at a dealer. Personally I kept the ECM software because 3CYL high idle is way faster to warm up cold engine. I only use the Quad during the summer and then use my high idle kit and my exhaust brake. 

[dieseldon]

Thanks for the help, so how do I use (turn on) the factory warm-up??

It has to be activated at dealership, a smarty or it's a kit??

It sounds like you turn yours on and off at will, (@factory ECM) how does one do that?

It seems you have both, quad and factory with no issues, just lucky or is that the"kit" you're talking about? What am I missing here?  You can use one or the other.

It seems I can't use either for whatever reason short of deactivating ECM and it sounds like that's the one to use during winter.

I'm pretty sure it was cold enough this morning to meet parameters.

 

 You can use either, I can use neither.

Sorry, still confused.

   

     Thanks again!

[LorenS]

25 minutes ago, dieseldon said:

It has to be activated at dealership, a smarty

I believe those are the only - or at least representative - options. I do not know if your average commercial truck dealership/repair shop can also access that since ISB engines are common in those trucks, too.

Edited October 27, 2020 by LorenS

[Mopar1973Man]

On 10/26/2020 at 7:10 PM, dieseldon said:

Thanks for the help, so how do I use (turn on) the factory warm-up??

 

With my High idle kit switch...

 

On 10/26/2020 at 7:10 PM, dieseldon said:

It has to be activated at dealership, a smarty or it's a kit??

Yes the only two ways of enabling the ECM high idle is Smarty tuner or the Dealer. The only way to turn it off is the dealer.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 7:10 PM, dieseldon said:

It sounds like you turn yours on and off at will, (@factory ECM) how does one do that?

No I don't... I've got my Quadzilla display up typically and see the IAT before even starting. If the IAT is even close to 32*F I will disable the Quadzilla. Then come spring again then I will turn on the Quadzilla being the temps are nowhere near 32*F on the IAT. ECM is always ENABLED and ARMED it the Quadzilla that I selectively turn off and on. Still in all the 3 CYL function is WAY FASTER than the Quadzilla high idle.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 7:10 PM, dieseldon said:

It seems you have both, quad and factory with no issues, just lucky or is that the"kit" you're talking about? What am I missing here?  You can use one or the other.

 

Yes I've got both. I can only selectively turn on and off the Quadzilla. Period. The ECM high idle is always armed and no way to turn off. So any time the IAT is near 32*F then the Quadzilla high idle is turned off and use the ECM high idle. 

On 10/26/2020 at 7:10 PM, dieseldon said:

I can't use either for whatever reason short of deactivating ECM and it sounds like that's the one to use during winter.

Yes you can just disable the Quadzilla for winter time and use the ECM high idle. Spring time return back to the Quadzilla. Been that way for the entire time I've owned the Quadzilla. I enabled my ECM high idle long long time ago and never turned it back off.

 

On 10/26/2020 at 7:10 PM, dieseldon said:

I'm pretty sure it was cold enough this morning to meet parameters.

 

ECM HIGH IDLE 

 

6 CYL - IAT must be below 32*F with the grid heaters on. ECT must be below 140*F.

3 CYL - IAT must be below 15*F with the grid heater on. ECT must be below 140*F..

 

For me really soon I will be shutting down the Quadzilla high idle being the next week is going to be single digits. So bye bye to the Quadzilla high idle till spring. 

 

Notice both the delay and the warm up mode are both turned OFF! It will continue the rest of the winter with the ECM high idle now. I'll just use my high idle switch to control which mode I start with. Remember to set the switch on the mode before you start up.

[dieseldon]

Thanks for taking the time to clarify some things!

However as usual more questions come up, maybe time to wrap up this thread. ?

 

I was asked earlier if my ECM (factory warm up mode) was turned on, if so I've got problems because they don't play well with each other, however obviously you can have both, BUT you need that switch, and when it gets cold turn off high idle settings on quad, got it, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Now, shouldn't I be able to use quad high idle as long as it's not cold, wether or not the ECM is enabled, and I'm assuming it's not, and wether or not I have the switch? And shouldn't I be able to use quad high idle when cold without the switch IF the factory ECM hasn't been enabled? I do want one of those switches, looks pretty slick but my war chest is depleted from just trying to keep this thing running since I bought it and purchase of quad

?.

 

Like I said, currently it seems I don't have factory mode, and quad seems to have issues. MAYBE it's just pure coincidence that truck was running weird and check engine light coming on with the quad high idle turned on? I'm kind of nervous to turn it back on.

  Either way I'm learning a lot about truck and quad, so that's a bonus! But also I need to know if quad has a glitch and needs attention while under warranty .

 

 How hard is it for someone with smarty to turn on ECM idle mode ? Trying to stay away from stealership!

 

One more question, when you say you "disable quad" when it gets cold I'm assuming you mean just disable the quad idle settings and not the entire quad?

 Thanks for the help and patience for a new cummins owner!

      Don