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JBK

Having Dead pedal issues

20 posts in this topic

Just bought my truck in May, 2002 3500 quad cab, it's the first diesel I've owned, so I'm on a definite learning curve here. Truck runs great, starts right up every time, pulls the 27.5 ft 5th wheel no problem. But here lately in the afternoon when I get off work and crank her up to go home, she'll idle out of the parking lot and when I get to the street and hit the throttle...... nothing happens and she just slowly creeps into the roadway. This will last for a couple of minutes and then all the sudden she'll take off and run great all the way home. I read some earlier posts on how to read the codes and so I read them this evening, here is what I got: P0500, P0460, P1693, Pdone, P0216, P1693, Pdone. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,JBK

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Unfortunatley your learning curve is going to hurt at this point, right in your pocket book:spend:. As i'm sure people will chime in, the P 0216 code you have is most likely saying your in for an injection pump very soon. One thing about your year truck (actually 98- 02) the injection pumps are fed buy a lift pump that has a tendancy to fail, causing damage to the injection pump, therefore causing that to fail. Most people update their lift pumps with an aftermarket that is more reliable. You most likely going to have to take it somewhere to get it diagnosed for sure unless you can, one thing you must must get is a fule pressure gauge to see what you have for pressure so you don't ruin another pump. Good luck and keep us in the loop how you make out. * fuel psi 14+ @ idle, no lower the 10 psi @ WOT is what you'd like to see :thumbup2:

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yeah sorry man - this sucks - we all been here. There were even guys talking about class actions they were so upset with it.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-repairs-replacements/16046-vp-44-pump-lift-pump-failures-explained-article.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?1998.5-2002-Dodge-Cummins-VP44-Injection-Pump&id=794753

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ISB/vp44_reliability.html

Basically - your looking at around $1k for a new one ....... *ouch*

Like everyone mentioned - depending on existing lift pump - you need a high pressure lift pump LP and some gauges to monitor.

LP is around $500 I think- FASS or AIRDOG , gauges as cheap as $50 but probably $150 for good one.

Installations is not too bad (although I didn't do mine to be honest) as it happend straight after I got my truck and hadn't gotten my hands dirty on it yet ........ jkidd or one of the vendors here can help you out.

good luck:thumbup2:

--- Update to the previous post...

INSTALL VP44

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/vp44-replace/vp44-replace.htm

INSTALL AIRDOG

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/personal/2002/airdog-150/airdog-150.htm

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Can you say two cycle oil!Can you say Ow! there goes about $1,200 out of my wallet.To bad you didn't find this forum a few years earlier! I just went through your situation. I feel for you.I will say this! After! you install your rebuilt pump you will be much wiser. You will be running two cycle oil with your fuel.Walmart -- Good stuff. You will probably want to send a letter to the EPA with a picture of your middle finger sticking up, but it won't help.Your truck will be running so much quiter, and smoother in the future you will be scared to drive it for a while thinking something is wrong when in fact everything will be right.I don't know where to tell you to get your rebuilt vp44 ( and lift pump ) but I got mine through a place called thedieselstore.com. I have zero complaints.As far as lift pumps I have no recomendation on them I am still using a stock replacment on mine because I'm only driving my truck around town now and won't ever be pulling anything in the future.I got a fuel pressure gauge, and now I look at it all the time now just because the people here on this forum have educated me on the pitfalls of the new ULSD fuel, and all the other things wrong with our time period truck, and it's faults.Anyway I wish you all the best on the repair of your problems. Oh yeah if you don't have a way to clear your check engine light, get one to keep on hand. I got mine from Harbour Freight when it was on sale.It works just fine for me to clear mine. Like they say Time heals all wounds including dead pedal.Lots of reading on this forum, and lots to learn. I have learned more from this forum then any place else in my whole lifes experieince with diesel stuff.

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I'm curious here. How is it that it can act dead for a few minutes, and then all of a sudden it runs like normal, and that is a symptom of a dead pump? I think that is what the consensus usually says but I just don't get how a pump that is dead for a few minutes and fine for the rest of the while is deemed as being dead.

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Yea... :rolleyes:

Posted Image

Simple way to think about it... That VP44 pump only has fuel lubricating all the moving parts. Bosch (not Cummins or Dodge) requires at least 70% of the fuel to be return to the fuel tank. This is used for cooling and lubricanting purpose. Once the fuel pressure dips down below 12 PSI the fuel should start to tapper off and now at 10 PSI the flow has stopped to flowing back to the return line to the tank. Here is the overflow valve.

post-2-138698170069_thumb.jpg

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YREpPrMxkHU

At the end of the video the small trickle is what it looks like while the engine is running and liftp pump is below 10 PSI. There is no return...

Now in you stock setup the lift pump is know for 2 failures the rotor head to slip or the pressure regulator failure internally in the lift pump. No the plastic hub is not suppose to slip or fall out like these pics.

post-2-138698170039_thumb.jpg

So sad to say the thing that could of saved you about $1,800 bucks is a simple $40 dollar fuel pressure gauge and it would of alerted you to the lift pump failure that actually caused the P0216 code which happen to be a phyiscal wear failure of the timing cam internally in the VP44 cause from lack of fuel pressure.

Because now you going to need to replace the VP44, lift pump (suggest AirDog, Raptor, or FASS - Not a FASS DDRP), and get a fuel pressure gauge.

post-2-138698170055_thumb.jpg

post-2-138698170074_thumb.jpg

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Mike - I thanked you and not ISX (as you had pics info) but also 1.327 is ISX's "thanks" ratio :) 1.21 is yours :):lmao2: Haha - ok bored and felt like being the jackass ............................. but your gonna have to watch your back - one day you will gon break and isx will change the FQN to moparISXmen.com :) *jokes*

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Mike - I thanked you and not ISX (as you had pics info) but also

1.327 is ISX's "thanks" ratio :)

1.21 is yours :)

:lmao2:

Haha - ok bored and felt like being the jackass ............................. but your gonna have to watch your back - one day you will gon break and isx will change the FQN to moparISXmen.com :)

*jokes*

I'm actually at an all time high on percentage over him :lmao::lmao2::evilgrin:

Posted Image

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I'm curious here. How is it that it can act dead for a few minutes, and then all of a sudden it runs like normal, and that is a symptom of a dead pump? I think that is what the consensus usually says but I just don't get how a pump that is dead for a few minutes and fine for the rest of the while is deemed as being dead.

It is called electronics...... Plus the code P0216.

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It is called electronics...... Plus the code P0216.

It just seems weird that it doesn't have power then something (wish I knew what) happens and the truck regains consciousness. It's like the lift pump turns off for a while then comes back on. I guess this is all the same story for every vp44 failure, but it still seems ironic.

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It is called electronics...... Plus the code P0216.

I think its more of the fact the low fuel pressure robs the VP44 electroincs of cooling fuel and the electronic get heat stress and begin to act weird and strange. But the P0216 is the prove of it... (Best guess theory...)

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Well, there is always the old trick of pouring water on it to see if it works better......:rolleyes:

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yeah sorry man - this sucks - we all been here. There were even guys talking about class actions they were so upset with it.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-repairs-replacements/16046-vp-44-pump-lift-pump-failures-explained-article.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?1998.5-2002-Dodge-Cummins-VP44-Injection-Pump&id=794753

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/ISB/vp44_reliability.html

Basically - your looking at around $1k for a new one ....... *ouch*

Like everyone mentioned - depending on existing lift pump - you need a high pressure lift pump LP and some gauges to monitor.

LP is around $500 I think- FASS or AIRDOG , gauges as cheap as $50 but probably $150 for good one.

Installations is not too bad (although I didn't do mine to be honest) as it happend straight after I got my truck and hadn't gotten my hands dirty on it yet ........ jkidd or one of the vendors here can help you out.

good luck:thumbup2:

--- Update to the previous post...

INSTALL VP44

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/2ndgen24v/vp44-replace/vp44-replace.htm

INSTALL AIRDOG

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/personal/2002/airdog-150/airdog-150.htm

:banghead:just curious on how much 2-cycle oil to run in the fuel from now on?

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Right here ====> http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/cummins/general/2-cycle-oil/ratio/ratio.htm

So 30 gallons = 30 ounces :thumbup2:

--- Update to the previous post...

Thanks for all the info - it does suck

I hear you - you wanna talk about a learning curve - I have spent $10k since getting my truck about year ago. This site and those problems helped me learn ALOT. Its a bitter pill though - i fully get that - sorry man - took me a long time to deal with it.

Only side q - and this is for someone else as I don't know - he's also got those other codes around fuel sensor/speed sensor - does he have an electrical issue here as well ??? :shrug:

I don't remember p0216 being accompanied byu the fuel/speed sensor codes ??

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I don't remember p0216 being accompanied byu the fuel/speed sensor codes ??

we all like braking tires loose, right?

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Just before I changed mine, I was towing a trailer from California to Here in Oklahoma.My CEL had been coming on and off, and I didn't know anything about two cycle oil. Strangley enough I filled up just before I left to calif with some off colored fuel for the trip.It rand good becuase the fuel had lubrication in it. HMMMMM.Light came on in calif and off and on during the trip home. I was scared to death that it would stop in the middle of the desert when it was 122 degrees out there.Hah! I blew out 4 tires! on my trailer.Anyway coming back it made it until I was 2 miles from my home, turned the corner, and the engine just went down to nothing.I let up on the throttle expecting it to stop right there, and the engine picked up again, and we made it to the home ponderosa.Well I unhooked the trailer, and pulled the truck in front of my shop, and opened the wallet.No codes now! new vp44 and new lift pump.I did dissasemble the lift pump and examine it, there was some wear on the end of the shaft everything else looked good but it ended up in the trash.I won't take a chance on a used item like that.I wish you well on getting yours solved.

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