need help deciding on a turbo

[Dieselfuture]

20 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Ummm... DAP has a 62/86/12 that will work with a exhaust brake! Ask @dieselautopowerabout the turbo... I want to buy it but bills first...

Guess I wasn't aware that they one that you can use the five bolt flange on. Maybe when I was looking it wasn't available so I had one custom built.

[dripley]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I want to buy it but bills first.

Economics is what drove my decision.

[Mopar1973Man]

54 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Guess I wasn't aware that they one that you can use the five bolt flange on. Maybe when I was looking it wasn't available so I had one custom built.

 

Yup. I talked to Jacob Kidd at @dieselautopowerabout 2 years ago and he told me he's stock a 62/68/12 turbo that is exhaust brake ready. Kind of pricey back then... I'm sure it still is...

 

3 minutes ago, dripley said:

Economics is what drove my decision.

 

I get it... Right now I'm trying to save the money for the clutch on the 2006 Dodge so I get it to roll soon. Even that ruck needs a $230 dollar wastegate control valve. 

[dripley]

45 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Even that ruck needs a $230 dollar wastegate control valve. 

The one on my HX is getting weak also. Plus it has 525k on it and deserves a break. It has served me very well.

 

One thing that helped that longevity was I only fed it air and not hose clamps.

[dieselautopower]

It was a 57/61 with 5 bolt flange.  They are discontinued, but we have plans....

 

 

@Mopar1973man here is a link for the boost actuator https://www.dieselautopower.com/5-9l-turbo-wastegate-control-solenoid

[Silverwolf2691]

@dieselautopower Don't know if you saw my original post, what are your thoughts about the options I picked? 

[LorenS]

7 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

DAP has a 62/86/12 that will work with a exhaust brake!

At what point does a guy jump to 14 cm² ? I hope I didn't mess up getting a 12 cm² vs. the 9 cm² of my current HY-35.

[dieselautopower]

68mm turbine with 12cm is best for daily driving and for 500HP-525HP.  Above that the14cm will allow for a little less back pressure and will support 550HP- 575HP on the turbine side nicely.  

 

Turbine size and turbine housing size make a big difference.  Here is a chart for reference.  Gated housings add an extra 20% or so flow.

[dripley]

7 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@dieselautopower Don't know if you saw my original post, what are your thoughts about the options I picked? 

We seemed to have taken over your thread in your absence. We apologize for that. Hopefully @dieselautopowerwill be along soon.

 

 

That was quick.

 

[dieselautopower]

 

 

7 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@dieselautopower Don't know if you saw my original post, what are your thoughts about the options I picked? 

 

 

Your original post lacks some detail.  What size injectors are you going to run?  Do you have a HP goal?  

 

Sled pulling and street driving are on opposite sides of the spectrum.  If you choose a turbo that is well suited for either you will hate it for the other.

Sled pulling 2.5 class = custom turbo like s400 (63.5mm for budget, or "65mm" aka 64.5mm in an s400 frame for more competition)  Its going to tow like a fat turd but make big peak HP.

62/68/12 S300 SXE is going to be small to be competitive  but will drive nicely for 500HP and daily drive and towing.

s300 SXE 64.5/73.4/14cm T3 gated or .91 T4 non gated will be a halfway between the two options and still be class legal (check with organization first... rules change every year)

 

Most people who do sled pulling that are competitive have them purpose built and you will get your rear end handed to you if you bring on a street truck.  If you want to have fun go ahead and have fun.  things break often and its a good idea to trailer it in or have a buddy with a trailer at the ready to come bring you home WHEN something breaks.

 

Not meant to discourage in any way, but don't want anyone to be unprepared.

[Silverwolf2691]

@dieselautopower Valid points all around.

 

Currently run your +50s, would like to get flux/f1 diesel +150s. Not sure on horsepower. im guessing that from others with similar builds final build would be 450-500. 

 

So our sled pulling up in the northeast is i think the equivalent of "brush pulls" possibly? we run an 8500lb work stock/2.5 class on the low end and 8000 lb "enhanced diesel" as our 2.6 equivalent, there's a 7000lb open gas diesel combined class, there is only a single handful of 3.0 or larger trucks that I have seen pull with my specific club but we have a bunch of other overlapping clubs. meaning i might not have seen all that's around here. i was able to do semi-respectably in the 3 pulls we had this year with just a quad and 50s. I bring this up just to say competitive work stock for new england isn't 800+ hp, its in the 350-400 range. Our enhanced class i'm guessing is 5-600hp. and a few of the members run both classes. We have a barely there tech so no plugging of turbos, basically at weight, driveshafts taped minimum, battery strapped down. that's kind of it. and yes i'm trying to stay within the rules with minimal squinting between the lines

 

For now, i'm pulling in work stock. I don't know if I will graduate to our enhanced diesel class. If I did, I would probably lean towards s464. This truck is not going to be used as a main tow vehicle, its a weekend dump run/back up daily/mainly sled pull for use. if i'm towing id be using my 2019. 

 

In regards to your you last two points, i'm prepared for that. but adding to what I said above our work stock class is street trucks, even our enhanced class is mixed with street trucks. I'm doing this to have fun first and if I make podiums its an added bonus.

 

thank you for the advice as well

 

1 hour ago, dripley said:

We seemed to have taken over your thread in your absence. We apologize for that. Hopefully @dieselautopowerwill be along soon.

 

 

That was quick.

 

 

@dripley Its still semi on topic because @LorenS brought up an option I hadn't known about. 

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, dieselautopower said:

Here is a chart for reference.

Thank you for the effort to educate me.  I seem to be in the Graduate level course, and will meekly exit to go find the 101 course.

[dripley]

3 minutes ago, LorenS said:

Thank you for the effort to educate me.  I seem to be in the Graduate level course, and will meekly exit to go find the 101 course.

plenty of room back here.

[dieselautopower]

Got it... fun stuff and not intended for dual purpose.

 

Consider some 7x.013 injectors (detune with QZ for daily driving) and 64.5/73.4/12cm for close to support 600HP and it will be way more responsive than a s464  (6.7L can support s400 chargers a lot better).

 

The 12cm housing should let you spool up around 1900-2000rpm and will flow more than a 64.5/68/14cm.  by comparison vs a 62/68/12 at about 1600-1700.

 

( altitude, tire size, trans, axle ratio will affect turbo sizing)  Lower elevation you can go bigger because you have more air pressure 14.7psi at sea level vs 12.2psi at 5000ft.  

[Silverwolf2691]

@dieselautopower as a reference im guessing 7x.013 injectors are in the 250ish±50hp range? I know 7x.010s are 150s, its just so i have an idea as to how much bigger these would be.. 

 

64.5/73.4/12, is that basically a s464 sized s300 with a 12cm^2 exhaust housing? that's an interesting option.. looking at compd they all say s400 for durability, kind of only reason that i was thinking that.

 

im zero-a few hundred feet above sea level, nv5600, 4.10s (luckily for pulling), tires currently are 285/70r17 (32.7x11.4r17). when these are done im gonna go with 33 or 35x12.5r17s.

 

TBH, both of those are a lot bigger than i was thinking initially, gotta re-think my options now lol.

[dieselautopower]

7x.013 are about 250-300HP over stock injector.  the VP44 has a diminishing ability to fuel when you get bigger injectors... they just don't = a matching amount of fuel delivered.  S400 are significantly more durable.  Larger injectors will give you more control over the tiiming of the injection event and reduce duration. 

 

Turbos.... The larger covers also allow for more air to flow.  The turbine wheel is a lot heavier and so is the compressor wheel.  the 63.5mm is older technology and not as efficient as the newer 67.7mm s400 wheel for example.

 

Its really hard to split the difference and get a turbo that will do both.  A 6.7L has about 13% more displacement and the CR heads flow about 10% better without any mods, and the common rails have multiple and more precise injection events..... so spooling a big turbo is a lot easier.

 

s464/83/.90  will probably spool about 2300-2400-RPM and have very little response below that.  an s369 would spool faster than an s464...at probably about 2100RPM... abut would put you out of the 2.5 class.

 

Lots of turbine sizes to play around with on the s300 platform and gated allows for better street manners.

[Silverwolf2691]

So the only thing is that 2.5 class is checked with 2.55 plug and 2.6 is checked with 2.65 I believe. Even though we don't check every pull, im trying to stay in work stock/2.5. So technically the turbo you suggested is too big for the class i'm in currently. 

 

2.5 = 63.5mm

2.55 = 64.77mm

2.6 = 66mm

2.65 =67.3 

[dieselautopower]

Read this on another website.  the s464 is offered in a billet configuration and its a better wheel.  : 

 

[s300]Billet compressor wheel inducer options: 61mm (2.45” inlet), 63mm (2.55” inlet), 64mm (2.60” inlet), 66mm (2.65” inlet), or 69mm (2.75” inlet)

 

[s400] -Cast compressor wheel inducer options: 64mm (2.55” inlet), 66mm (2.65” inlet), 72mm (2.85” inlet), or 75mm (3.00” inlet)

[LorenS]

On 2/27/2021 at 8:34 AM, Silverwolf2691 said:

it appears that the elbow from the HX35 will fit.

 

On 2/27/2021 at 3:13 PM, Silverwolf2691 said:

good to know but meant the compressor outlet elbow.

Just confirmed it's a perfect match to the elbow that mated up to my HY-35.

 

Of course, now that you're talking S-300/400 it's probably moot.

[Evan]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:34 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Ummm... DAP has a 62/86/12 that will work with a exhaust brake! Ask @dieselautopowerabout the turbo... I want to buy it but bills first...

Edit 62/68/12