Honda Tri Fuel.

[Turbo Terry]

Had many Honda’s in my life  2 three wheelers three 4 wheelers two mowers and now two generators.  Honda’s have always been good to me.  No problems.  I really like them.  Many tough miles. My newest is a eu 2200 I.  Gen  And the exciting thing is it runs on gas and propane and natural gas.  I have it plumbed to my natural gas meter    It will run my boiler furnace and a couple freezes etc.  and if the gas lines are broken I keep 25 gallons gasoline and 100 lbs propane on hand to keep going till the lines are repaired.  Very nice set up  I’m ready for winter now 

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[JAG1]

If someone knows something about generators with winter coming, my biggest problem is not having water when the power is out. My well circuit is 220 volt double 30 amp breakers with a 3/4 horse pump 550 feet away from the house. I want to get two Honda Gens to take care of that and some other lighter loads. Can anyone inform me of decent size gens to buy to help me with this. I like have two gens side by side as they are lighter and maybe quieter. This idea was first given to me by W-T but with what was going on at the time, I  unfortunately, didn't pay enough attention to what he was telling me so any help would be great. T.I.A.

[Mopar1973Man]

I started out with generators. Then converter to full solar power and hydro power. Silent power that requires no fuel and always ready. As soon as the inverter senses dirty power it drops the city power and switches to the inverter in under 200ms. Might see a blink in the house but everything is still running. Just had the inverter fire up 4 days ago my computer screen went black for a second or so the came back just where I left off.

 

Future plan is to take my 6500 watt generator wired into the inverter so if the load exceeds the 4000 watt inverter so it would start and warm up then pair the AC wave presto you now have 10500 watts of power total.

 

For the last 20 years I've just ran the inverter solo typically.

[Turbo Terry]

Sound like you need a 240 volt generator.  Honda’s only do 120 v in the smaller generators I believe

[Mopar1973Man]

Nope. Already got 240V generator. But my system is all 120V except the well pump which uses a step up transformer.

[JAG1]

5 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I started out with generators. Then converter to full solar power and hydro power. Silent power that requires no fuel and always ready. As soon as the inverter senses dirty power it drops the city power and switches to the inverter in under 200ms. Might see a blink in the house but everything is still running. Just had the inverter fire up 4 days ago my computer screen went black for a second or so the came back just where I left off.

 

Future plan is to take my 6500 watt generator wired into the inverter so if the load exceeds the 4000 watt inverter so it would start and warm up then pair the AC wave presto you now have 10500 watts of power total.

 

For the last 20 years I've just ran the inverter solo typically.

Does your system have a transfer switch to prevent back feed.?

[Turbo Terry]

I built a home made one from a electrical switch box. Either I’m on my Honda gen power   or the electric company   I marked it very well and put a lock and key on it so it can be controlled.  Poor mans double throw.  And I have a ton of extension cords and three way plugs to run thru the house. No where  near as sophisticated as mopar man but it works for us just fine

Key thing it runs the furnace and we don’t freeze up 

[LorenS]

15 hours ago, JAG1 said:

My well circuit is 220 volt double 30 amp breakers with a 3/4 horse pump

I'm guessing that's a pretty good inrush current. My old furnace had a 3/4 HP blower motor, 120V. My 2000W Honda could start it easy, but not with much else on. Once up and running, I could plug a fridge or freezer back in, and it could handle that appliance's inrush.

 

A 240V generator generally is just available in larger unit, I've found, and those get expensive in inverter duty units which are quiet and fuel efficient. If this generator wouldn't need to run 24/7 I'd be tempted to buy a non-inverter and just start it as needed to refill water jugs, etc. Put the savings towards fuel and a propane conversion kit!

[JAG1]

I'm thinking two Honda 2000W inverter type. Easy to put away and fuel efficient but, really wondering if that gets me on the wrong track since I want to do the heavy umbilical to a 50 amp style twist lock plug. Then it has been awhile since I have done electrical and want to get the well with one or two light and recepticle circuits on the transfer switch. My panel is down in the basement where everything is easy to do and the outside ground being close for one or two gens to sit on a slab.

 

W-T went for two Honda gens, big ones. Not sure on the size nor how he hooked them up. It was impressive when he talked about it.

 

Thank you for all the thoughts..

Edited September 16, 2021 by JAG1

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, JAG1 said:

I'm thinking two Honda 2000W inverter type

I don't believe those offer 240V when combined, they just give a lot more 120V amperage. The Honda 7kW units do have 240V, and I believe can be paired up.

 

I've read a lot of good reviews about the Harbor Freight Predator generators and see lots of food trucks using them. Also on job sites some guys have well-used versions and swear they're as good or nearly as good as their Hondas, for a LOT less money. I'd rather support Japan than China, but I ultimately prefer to keep my several thousand dollars, too. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Secret... I've been using a 6500w Harbor Frieght generator. It fairly quiet, has 240 but I only use the 120V for the inverter. Inverter only allows clean power. Frequency has to be really close to 60 Hz. Other than that it drops the generator because it's dirty power. Voltage as well has to be between a range I set. 130V upper and no lower than 115V again out of range the generator is dropped. Even better yet my inverter is old. It a old modified sine-wave. Never had any electronic failure from dirty power. Computers, TV, cellphones, tablet, any thing it will not be damaged. So me I don't have to have at Honda Invertered Generator I can save money use a cheap harbor freight no issues.

[AH64ID]

On 9/15/2021 at 8:50 PM, LorenS said:

I don't believe those offer 240V when combined, they just give a lot more 120V amperage. The Honda 7kW units do have 240V, and I believe can be paired up.

 

I've read a lot of good reviews about the Harbor Freight Predator generators and see lots of food trucks using them. Also on job sites some guys have well-used versions and swear they're as good or nearly as good as their Hondas, for a LOT less money. I'd rather support Japan than China, but I ultimately prefer to keep my several thousand dollars, too. 

 

Correct, 120V with them in parallel. Need something with 240V, so the small honda's are out. 

 

I have a older Winco tri-fuel 5500 that I use for my well, but will be selling it this winter and using a newer Honda 5000 (don't recall the exact model). 

 

On 9/14/2021 at 11:14 PM, Turbo Terry said:

Had many Honda’s in my life  2 three wheelers three 4 wheelers two mowers and now two generators.  Honda’s have always been good to me.  No problems.  I really like them.  Many tough miles. My newest is a eu 2200 I.  Gen  And the exciting thing is it runs on gas and propane and natural gas.  I have it plumbed to my natural gas meter    It will run my boiler furnace and a couple freezes etc.  and if the gas lines are broken I keep 25 gallons gasoline and 100 lbs propane on hand to keep going till the lines are repaired.  Very nice set up  I’m ready for winter now 

 

 

What kit did you use to make the EU2200 tri-fuel?

[Turbo Terry]

Hutch Mountain out of Utah.  Very good service.  Although a easy enough install there were some running issues but they helped me and we worked them out.  I will tell youthe problem if your interested. Kind of interesting actually 

Very happy with my set up

[AH64ID]

Yes I am interested in knowing. I've read about their kits, they seem well thought out.

[Turbo Terry]

So let me explain my set up a bit first.  I have a man door on the side of my house behind a locked gate.  Natural gas meter is on same side of the house 20 ft from door. Also a larger dog door.  When I ran gasoline in the past the gen would set outside and run . I ran a cord thru the dog door to the homemade double throw to run the furnace then ran electrical cords thru the house garage to run freezers etc moving things about as needed.   So  my goal was to for some reason have the gen set by the door.So I could look after it and not have to do 20 ft of snow  So I got 20 ft gas hose from them . I thought I could just turn the gas off and get a plug for the meter. They sent me a inline coupling with a shut off valve. I had a certified plumber put it on for 150$. He earned his money. Was there the next day I called and did a great job.  The fittings were really tight etc  My goal was to be able when the lights went out start the gen on gasoline them rather easily switch to natural gas. Save my spare propane and gasoline as back up in case the gas lines were broken .   So after the install the kit came set up for propane. That’s where I thought I would start out  then change the carb jet to natural gas a very simple job and move on but I had problems. The gen would not start on propane  so I called them sent them pictures of the install etc   We tried a second 20 lbs propane bottle. Both where full    No start no fire run rough nothing.  So in the process with winter fast approaching here I took the 20 lbs off my back porch grill and covered it for the winter . We use a smaller grill in the garage for winter Barbie just open the door.  20 lb was about half full  and 

 I had two other half fulls to fill before winter.  So I tried the 1/2 bottle and it fired right up.  Then I switched out the jet to natural gas and hooked that up. Best way to do it’s start the gen on gasoline 1 maybe two pulls  then turn the gasoline on the gen off and when it starts to stumble turn the natural gas on and bring them together.  Very soon you are then on natural gas works great.  Now to teach my wife and neighbor and two step boys to do it if I’m not here. So I had a gas / air lock in the two full bottles   When they fill them by weight and burp them I think it happens.  I have a 20 lbs lay down propane in my slide in and when I fill it up it will not start the refer in the camper until I start the cook stove and let it burn a bit to relieve the gas/air lock.  The same thing I’m sure.  Questions ?

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Like I'm wanting to modify my setup. I'm going to build a locking dog house for my generator so it remains outside. My inverter had an auto start feature so if power goes out it can start either gas or diesel generator. Just wire up the auto start feature so when house loads are high enough it just starts on it own. No setup like now, roll it out the man door start it up and plug in.

 

I get the natural gas prime problem I've got the same thing in my RV nothing works till the stove burns a bit.

[JAG1]

Due to the expense and the quietness of the Honda EU series Hondas I just bought a second inverter gen, EU 2200i so we can live in the RV when we have a bad storm. I will just have to visit my friends in town every three days to fill up with water. The new Honda has a 30 amp 3 prong twist lock receptacle for my 30 amp rv cord (with the gen adapter) and will run the microwave. On eco mode it didn't have to go into a higher idle to power the microwave. It's very nice and since we have our own RV dump in the driveway, will be fine to go this route. If it gets real cold we have to keep the woodstove going for the house plumbing. The other generator will keep the fridge going in the house just fine.

 

Poor mans way of doing it, yes but, if I put a sanitary water storage tank outside I can use another 12 volt pump to pump water into the rv. 

IBMobile is  genius.... he says plumb the 12 volt pump and tank to a hose bib outside and repressurise the well pressure tank to flush toilets and run water in the house. He is the cool idea man 

Edited September 25, 2021 by JAG1

[Turbo Terry]

So I have a parallel  Honda question?   If I take two Honda suitcase generators that will connect together will it give  me  240 volts or just more watts 120 v 

[IBMobile]

Parallel increases amperage; so you would just get more watts.  To get 240v they would need to be in series and then it would still be single phase. It would not be a two phase system with each leg (phase) at 120v.   

[AH64ID]

On 9/27/2021 at 6:00 PM, IBMobile said:

Parallel increases amperage; so you would just get more watts.  To get 240v they would need to be in series and then it would still be single phase. It would not be a two phase system with each leg (phase) at 120v.   

Unlike DC voltage you can’t easily series AC power due to the phasing of the alternating current. The Honda’s are designed to sync their phases, but they have to be connected in parallel for that to work. 
 

Household 240V is in fact 2 120V legs, but the are phases 180° apart. Even thou it has 2 hot wires it is still called single phase. If you think about overhead power lines single phase is one wire (plus ground) and three phase is 3 wires (plus ground). The transformer then takes that single phase, often 7200V or higher, and transforms it down to 120V on two legs with 180° of phase separation, which is household 240V single phase power. 
 

If it’s a 4 wire 240V plug there is a neutral so that the appliance can also use 120V.