Front End Rebuild Suggestions

[YeaImDylan]

Hey all! Back again with more questions lol.

 

So I am wanting to replace the the 2 bars for steering (I get confused with what to call them my bad, tie rods I'm assuming?), steering box (planning to go with a blue top), sway bar, track bar, and possibly ball joints, alignment shop told me one or both had a little bit of play but told me I wouldn't have issues with tire wear. If there are parts I'm missing that  I should replace, please tell me below! Tire wear has been fine I believe and its been about 5k miles. Need to rotate soon. I have a LOT of slop in the steering, possibly kind of dangerous at this point lol.

 

Biggest question is what brand to go with for these components. I keep hearing on forums these days that Moog is sadly not what they used to be... I just don't want to spend a bunch of money and have parts go out in a year or less. I also do not want to spend a fortune. I also see talk about changing to the "Y" steering I believe and I'm open to that suggestion if its truly worth it and I don't have to make any holes bigger on components to upgrade and/or spend a lot more than what the stock steering setup replacement would cost. 

 

Also, when doing the steering box, how can I make sure the pump is clear of debris? It's a new pump and I'd like to re use it but I want to assure there isn't any debris in there so I don't damage the blue top. Will be buying new power steering lines as well.

 

Planning to do it all on my own to save money and use the hobby shop on base here. If any of you know anyone semi close to Camp Lejeune, NC and they'd be willing to help, I'd love the help if I'm able to get it lol. Will definitely bring a 6 pack (or more) for that person. Also, how far can I safely drive after replacing these components to get it aligned? We have a firestone on base which would be a mile or 2 drive, off base location would be a minimum of probably 8-10 miles.

 

Open to ANY and ALL suggestions!

Thank you.

[Andyba20]

My experience with Moog has been good the past few years. I used the Moog Problem Solver line on my front end rebuild and they’ve been fantastic. I think there is a cheaper line of Moog that is available so maybe that is what has been the catalyst for all the negative opinions the past few years, but I ordered all Moog components through Amazon in 2019 and everything has been great. Tie rods, ball joints, track bar, etc…the only thing I replaced with a Mopar factory part was the steering dampener. Anytime I tried any of the parts store front end components they last literally less than 100 miles. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Like myself I used all NAPA parts no issues. Tie rod, track bar and drag link. I used cheap ball joints off of RockAuto. Biggest thing that makes these parts last is not running oversized tires and/or lift kits.

[Andyba20]

I did get my wheel bearings from Napa, as well as all the parts for my 3rd Gen brake upgrade and they’ve been fine. No exaggeration though, every steering part I’ve ever bought for this truck from AutoZone, Advance, O’Reilly’s has been terrible and required a redo.

[YeaImDylan]

Thanks for the feedback gents. I’m trying to go cheapest as possible but not autozone cheap lol I’m willing to pay a decent amount but don’t want to buy some crazy 900 dollar kit lol. Tire size currently is 35 and will not be any bigger in reference to moparman’s comment about oversized tires and I also have a leveling kit and will not be lifting it any higher. 
 

do any of you know about rotating something in the area of the ball joints to “correct” the angle? Stock I guess puts a lot of pressure on one ball joint and not the other and I’ve seen people talking about it and how to fix it.

[Andyba20]

You’ve probably heard people referring to the adjustable track bar, if you have a 2.5” level or bigger  it’s probably a good idea to use an adjustable track bar, if less than 2.5” you’re (arguably) ok with the oem style track bar. How long have you owned the truck and how well do you know it? Really should go ahead and change the ball joints as a set. Replacing the front end components is inevitable, and close inspection will likely lead to other recommended replacements as well. It’s way cheaper to do it all at once, especially from labor perspective and you can eliminate a lot of issues at once, like Death Wobble, which can be caused by several combinations of worn parts, or even just 1 worn part. If the Firestone techs near you are competent that wouldn’t be a bad place to have the alignment done, I believe they give a lifetime alignment option which lets you bring the truck in whenever you think you need an alignment and it’s free. If your budget allows, you might look at a front end bushings kit too. Several options for them online. 

[Dieselfuture]

This is what I used for tie rods, should be direct fit 01-02, called T stile, you have Y from factory. Your slop is probably from a lose steering box that you can tighten up with over center adjustment I believe it's called.

You can do your own alligment it's pretty easy.

[Stanley]

Go and get a complete DOR (dodgeoffroad) steering kit with hiem joints all around. You won't look back, my entire front end is from them and it's solid as a rock.

Highly highly recommend DOR stuff! Imo the best you could possibly get, and the price is justifiable.

[Mopar1973Man]

17 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

Thanks for the feedback gents. I’m trying to go cheapest as possible but not autozone cheap lol I’m willing to pay a decent amount but don’t want to buy some crazy 900 dollar kit lol. Tire size currently is 35 and will not be any bigger in reference to moparman’s comment about oversized tires and I also have a leveling kit and will not be lifting it any higher. 
 

do any of you know about rotating something in the area of the ball joints to “correct” the angle? Stock I guess puts a lot of pressure on one ball joint and not the other and I’ve seen people talking about it and how to fix it.

 

The problem is as you use a leveling kit you are altering two things. Number one the caster will turn more positive, this some thing can be adjusted on stock control arm and sometimes you need adjustable control arms to get the caster angle correct. Caster is what make the steering to self center. Then the second thing as the axle is swung downwards from the lift kit then the OE track bar is fixed length so now the axle is pulled toward the passenger side some and fouls the thrust angle which will no longer be straight.  To correct this you would need a adjustable track bar. I've got this same problem on my 2006 Dodge Ram and plan on pulling the 2 inch lift kit out next to get the alignment fixed on that truck. I've already returned back to 265/70 R17 wheels and tires. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Sycostang67]

The steering shaft between the gear box and the joint is another place you can develop a lot of steering slop.  Most of the threads were chewed off mine and the lock bolt was the only thing really allowing me to steer.  I'm using moog ball joints and track bar without any issues, I also have a Readhead gear box and mopar 3rd gen steering linkage.  

[YeaImDylan]

5 hours ago, Sycostang67 said:

The steering shaft between the gear box and the joint is another place you can develop a lot of steering slop.  Most of the threads were chewed off mine and the lock bolt was the only thing really allowing me to steer.  I'm using moog ball joints and track bar without any issues, I also have a Readhead gear box and mopar 3rd gen steering linkage.  

Did you use the same part number that the other gentleman mentioned above when doing the 3rd gen conversion for steering? If so or if not, did everything just bolt right up?

[Silverwolf2691]

I have a smattering of parts on my truck, I went with the goal of higher initial investment with lower price replaceable ends. Lets see if I remember everything lol:

 

Steering linkages: synergy

steering box: blue top

steering pump: rebuild from NAPA

ball joints: synergy (30k so far, need to double check play. Going with EMF next)

wheel bearings: timken or skf. had both, dont last as long due to the offset of my rims.

ujoints: spicer spl - coated

track bar: DOR adjustable, needs a rebuild on the ends.

sway bar: stock with Moog bushings and BD diesel end links

control arms: Carli

also have the rock solid ram bushing for the steering column

 

When replacing things like bearings, it was drilled into me to replace both at the same time, because usually the other is not far behind in failing. Ball joints I follow the same logic. Your sway bar itself should be fine, just need s new bushings and end links. Since you have a leveling kit control arms will help get your geometry back into shape.

 

On 10/30/2021 at 5:21 PM, YeaImDylan said:

do any of you know about rotating something in the area of the ball joints to “correct” the angle? Stock I guess puts a lot of pressure on one ball joint and not the other and I’ve seen people talking about it and how to fix it.

 

This is an inherent design into the 00-02 dana 60 axle, there's nothing you can do about it, unless you want custom everything. The way the ball joints are set up make them act more like a kingpin type axle. All the weight on the bottom, the top just keeps it in line. 

 

I'm assuming you found this article: https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/interesting-info-about-00-02-ball-joints.475650/

 

@Mopar1973Man , due to his setup, is much less plagued by the ball joint geometry. Larger tires and deep lip offsets multiply the forces exerted by driving immensely and it all gets absorbed by the bearings and ball joints.

 

Even my rims on my truck are too far out for my liking, and I think they are part of why my wheel bearings were starting to have issues when I did them a couple months ago.     

Edited November 1, 2021 by Silverwolf2691

[Mopar1973Man]

40 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

Mopar1973Man , due to his setup, is much less plagued by the ball joint geometry.

 

Much less issues with...

Track bar

Ball joints

Tie rod ends

Drag link

Steering box

Power steering pump

Brakes

Wheel bearings

Wheel joints

 

The list is long.

[YeaImDylan]

Would I be fine just replacing tie rod ends instead of the entire bar? And on the solid side of the bar without the collet sleeve, am I able to like press that out and put a new one in with a stock OEM setup?

Also, how should I clear the power steering pump of any debris?

[Mopar1973Man]

Pretty simple. When your ready pull the steering box return and route to waste container. Now turn the wheel lock to lock it will self pump the fluid through. It does help to have the front axle off the ground.

[Silverwolf2691]

If you are staying factory, there isn't a "bar" like heim joint setups. Each piece is the tie rod end 

 

 

08.5+ upgrade (t-style) on top, normal 2nd gen (y-style) on bottom. On both the only small tie rod end is at the drivers wheel and pitman arm (right side of image). Those are your tie rod ends, when you order them you will get two small boxes and two long boxes. You cant press them out because each end is forged or cast as one piece then I believe machined for everything making up the tie rod end. Once worn, its worn, no replaceable small parts. 

 

There is a thing called Luke's links, I don't remember what they did specifically for the tie rod end but it wasn't some thing that I liked the idea of so I didn't look further into it. I think it added a preload or "adjustability" to each end.    

 

Drag link is pitman arm to passenger knuckle, tie rod is knuckle to knuckle or knuckle to draglink.      

[Sycostang67]

On 10/31/2021 at 5:38 PM, YeaImDylan said:

Did you use the same part number that the other gentleman mentioned above when doing the 3rd gen conversion for steering? If so or if not, did everything just bolt right up?

I don't know if it's the same part number but it is the same style of steering linkage.  I got mine from Amazon, it is a mopar part.  This did just bolt right onto my truck. 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Ummm... In 436k miles I've never had death wobble. Still all factory OE design front end. 

[Andyba20]

OP is running 35’s. When I first got my truck it had 35’s and I would get death wobble bad. Replaced track bar (autozone) and it went away for a month, then started again. Took off the 35’s, went to 285/70/17, replaced track bar under warranty again and tie rod ends (autozone), ball joints were still good.  Death wobble went away and came back 3 months later. Replaced everything with oem style Moog stuff (including ball joints) and been good since. A lot of variables at play, but death wobble happens.

[Mopar1973Man]

You mention the key right there "oversized tires"... I've never ran oversized tires hence I've never had death wobble on any of my personal vehicles. This comes from the amount of rotational mass and then thing get out of balance just a little and then the axle start to wobble and jump. Just need the right kind of bump in the road to get death wobble started. Don't get me wrong I've driven plenty of customer trucks and felt the death wobble experience. The easy way to get of the death wobble is go right back to stock sized tires (31 inch) and the problem is gone. There are other factors like you pointed out like shocks, steering damper, good tire balance (zero if possible), good front springs, and the front axle isn't over loaded with a heavy winch bumper. The biggest thing is to understand the front end geometry and build the front axle up properly. Most don't so death wobble is rather easily found later.