1998.5 47re auto hard OD shift

[wil440]

My truck on longer journeys usually has my trailer hooked up and I lock out OD, everything has been fine also I tend to lockout OD around here also as it means the convertor is locked for much longer so revs down and MPG up, it can trundle along just over our lowest built up area speed limit of 30 just nice, pretty flat here.

Yesterday I went to fit a turbo boost sensor on a Volvo loading shovel, already visited to diagnose and was 100% sure so no need for my trailer just the part and a 8mm ratchet spanner and a small screwdriver

 

Noticed the change from 3rd to 4th was harsh and not what it usually is bearing in mind It may not have done that upshift for a bit, last time I recall was towing on the motorway downhill so throttle backed off anyway, I turn on OD in this situation then off as soon as the downhill is done when towing.

Checked for codes this morning and there was only battery voltage low, this was from when my alternator  resettable breaker popped the other week while jump starting a Peugeot Boxer,  I did disconnect the quad before the jumpstart,.

I cleared the low volt code and ran the truck, no active or stored codes in Engine ECU ,PCM , ABS or Body.... nothing and this is with a SO Modis at 2018 software so there is no codes.

The truck runs and shifts ok other than hard into OD, trans temps yesterday at 50 miles round trip was around 120f give or take

My next thing is to turn the quad down from 9 to 6 and see what that does, this could well be the cause thinking about it

 

Other than that I may have to drop the pan any other suggestions ????

[Tractorman]

When the transmission shifts from 3rd to overdrive, the converter should unlock just before the shift and then relock shortly after the shift.  Is this occurring?   If the converter remains locked during the shift, the shift will be harsh.

 

- John

[wil440]

52 minutes ago, Tractorman said:

When the transmission shifts from 3rd to overdrive, the converter should unlock just before the shift and then relock shortly after the shift.  Is this occurring?   If the converter remains locked during the shift, the shift will be harsh.

 

- John

John

My truck goes from 3rd unlocked to 4th which is OD and then convertor lockup, don't think I've ever felt it go to 3rd LU then unlock and go into OD then back to LU, there must be a scenario where that would happen but I've never felt it

It comes out of  LU when I turn OD off then once in 3rd it LU again, so never felt it going up put does coming down

 

I just took my dog to the vet and did put the quad on lvl 6 but it didn't go into OD at all due to road speeds and traffic, I'll try again tomorrow

[LorenS]

11 hours ago, wil440 said:

don't think I've ever felt it go to 3rd LU then unlock and go into OD then back to LU

Can't say as though I've ever thought about or noticed this. That's one little thing I do like a lot about the Adrenaline: it showing the gear and whether the converter is being commanded to lockup.

[wil440]

3 hours ago, LorenS said:

Can't say as though I've ever thought about or noticed this. That's one little thing I do like a lot about the Adrenaline: it showing the gear and whether the converter is being commanded to lockup.

Yes that is sort of useful,  I find the gear indicator is sometimes slow to read the correct gear, or my eyes are too slow to read the display  as going from 4th (OD) and then into LU my truck is accelerating rather rapidly for our normal roads (read little roads) so testing with the quad turned down will have to wait until I'm on a decent stretch of road 

 

I need to read and get into tuning with the quad more and figuring out what I'm going to do with the truck/trans etc

 

[Mopar1973Man]

So in a nutshell you need to work on the timing more so. That is what will make or break a tune. Proper advancement at the right time and proper retard at the correct time too. When the timing is correct the Engine Load, EGT's, engine coolant, and the engine oil temp will be the lowest. Fuel map is not as important, being like my current tune at 65 MPH I float about 1 to 2 PSI back on my stock HX35W turbo, and that's about 84% to 92% fuel. Then I've got stock 100% all the way to 15 PSI. Again not as important as timing which will make or break a tune. Clues to give if the rattle of the engine goes away you most likely too retarded in timing advance one degree at a time till the light rattle is heard for the span. If a heavy rattle or tinny rattle you are most likely too advanced. Be aware that over advancement creates what's called "Negative Torque" in which the advanced timing started burning the fuel before the piston makes it to TDC so now the piston is being slowed by negative torque and losing power till it breaks over the TDC mark then the power comes out. So this is why I watch engine oil temp because advanced timing has more flame front in contact with the cylinder walls and engine oil will rise being the coolant around cylinders and the oil cooler rises. Again proper timing will have the lowest temps for EGT's and coolant, and the lowest engine load. If your IAT is below +80*F you might want to cover over the intercooler build the heat up it does help with efficiency and does not require more advanced timing to heat than cold air, so you don't have to constant re-tweak the timing for cold or warm air. Another clue, my MPG mode in the High idle kits was to hold the IAT at 143*F so it never dropped below +80*F so when it does drop below the ECM normally kicks in another +4* of advancement and retards again above 80*F. Warmer intake (80 to 140*F) temps actually do produce better efficiency on the tunes, colder than 80*F does hurt the efficiency.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[wil440]

I read the tuning guide and watched the vid this morning, needless to say I now have a "test" tune to see what it runs like against my tow tune which is what my truck is always on.

 

I've dropped the fuelling down and also the timing down a little, I figure start lower than where I am on the tow tune then go from that, haven't tried it yet though

 

First time I've messed with it, we'll see tomorrow

[wil440]

One thing I will say is.

I've read the tuning guide and other threads several times and there wasn't a lot of it that actually went in made a little worse by slight terminology changes and also listing parameters not in the quad order so a particular changeable parameter with a slightly different name and talked about not in the order on the quad screen if that makes sense, I just didn't have the time to figure it.

 

Yesterday, no one around, watched the video, once without my screen then again with my screen and now a lot clearer, don't know why I didn't watch the vid months ago 

[wil440]

I took the truck for a quick test this morning, seems to run ok, boost way higher than what it is on my tow tune. 20ish on tow tune to over 30 max on this test tune, run not long enough to spend much time  looking at EGT, coolant temps etc but egt may be higher, timing might be a little low

 

Got to take my trailer to a job tomorrow so real test time 

[LorenS]

Some timing parameters I feel haven't been talked about a lot, based on my search results in the past. The Low PSI Timing Reduction is one that is usually just mentioned in passing, but I found one thread where @Me78569 really explained it well. Based on that, I have had mine set at 4 degrees (which I beli ve tapers out with RPM), with 60% Timing Reduction Scaling. I found conflicting reports on whether the 60% will reduce the former to 2.4⁰ or just shorter the RPM band over which the reduction takes place (steeper slope on a graph).

 

Since my above words are likely clear as mud, I will do my best to find these threads later and post them here for you. Right now I need to wake up the kids for school!

[Silverwolf2691]

 

I had started writing something but going off of memory wasn't smart.. 

[Mopar1973Man]

That is a complex function there and hard to explain.

[Silverwolf2691]

The biggest thing that helped me at least, was to play with the tune builder.. That's how I learned that one of the settings pulled the most low and at a certain point was not pulling any timing..

 

Just the visual of seeing what affected what was enough. But you cant see anything unless you have a tune to open..

[wil440]

1 hour ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

The biggest thing that helped me at least, was to play with the tune builder.. That's how I learned that one of the settings pulled the most low and at a certain point was not pulling any timing..

 

Just the visual of seeing what affected what was enough. But you cant see anything unless you have a tune to open..

agree 100%

as I said I'd read stuff and just got so bored with it all I just couldn't be bothered so left my towing tune as it was and never even clicked on edit

 

fast forward to this week, little bit of time, watched the vid on here then built a tune from scratch looking at the tow tune I have and other peoples threads/tunes etc trying to understand what did what and why and how.

I messed with it for a while whilst keeping within recommendations for timing and no studs and ran the tune yesterday for the first time but only local and without trailer

 

Today trailer on and off to a Concrete plant only 16 miles away but motorway and on the way back I took a different route that has a couple of good grades

I think

1. timing needs to be higher across the board, going to add 1degree and see 

2. fuelling is low but this was one of the reasons for doing the tune anyway ..... diesel here is £1.50 per litre or higher  but there is no haze or smoke at all so I will be going up on fuel a little at a time

 

It runs ok, not as much power as my tow tune, EGT's are low and I saw maybe 900f on a steep grade in 3rd LU, this grade has a sharp corner right at the bottom so 25mph is about the limit at the bottom and it goes for around a mile ( I know it's not a grade like some in the USA but it is the steepest near me) 

Coolant temps are ok maybe 3f higher at 195 when pulling hard, not sure yet if this is an actual coolant temp increase or just because I was in it harder to test again, we'll see and test more

[Mopar1973Man]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:09 AM, Silverwolf2691 said:

The biggest thing that helped me at least, was to play with the tune builder.. That's how I learned that one of the settings pulled the most low and at a certain point was not pulling any timing..

 

Just the visual of seeing what affected what was enough. But you cant see anything unless you have a tune to open..

 

Since I do not have a Microsoft machine to load the tune builder I do the tune work in real time watching the display. Even exporting the data logs doesn't work for me because I have to see road conditions to see why the numbers are, the way they are. Slopes, grades, bends in the road, etc all impact how the numbers come out in the wash. 

 

Simply put, timing should retard as engine load rises, then as engine load is reduced timing should go back up. More retard more boost you build, more advancement the less boost you build. Still to this day being I'm back to having my stock HX35W turbo I'm still nearly zero boost at 65 MPH just like 2 PSI typical running. Now roll into the throttle the boost can jump to 35 PSI pretty quickly. 

[LorenS]

I really thought my truck was driving awful lately (since the rodents ate my wiring) and sure enough, it was terrible! I hadn't noticed they chewed through the signal wire, since it was severed RIGHT at the firewall. Hopefully yet another splice has resolved the final issue and I can be back to Level 3. Not sure how I ever drove this truck without the Adrenaline! My old 6.2L GM diesel with 3.08 gears at least FELT faster (K5 Blazer).

[wil440]

17 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

More retard more boost you build, more advancement the less boost you build.

My tow tune didn't really get much over 20psi boost where as the test tune builds over 30 psi, tow is higher timing figures, test is lower, I'm going to add timing to my test a little at a time and well just test 

5 hours ago, LorenS said:

I really thought my truck was driving awful lately (since the rodents ate my wiring) and sure enough, it was terrible! I hadn't noticed they chewed through the signal wire, since it was severed RIGHT at the firewall. Hopefully yet another splice has resolved the final issue and I can be back to Level 3. Not sure how I ever drove this truck without the Adrenaline! My old 6.2L GM diesel with 3.08 gears at least FELT faster (K5 Blazer).

Yes, I recently went back to stock to test differences, won't be doing that again, slow noisy and just not nice, In fact I remember posting on here when I first got the truck "before quad" that I preferred my 3500 gas truck as it was more refined 

[wil440]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:00 PM, Tractorman said:

When the transmission shifts from 3rd to overdrive, the converter should unlock just before the shift and then relock shortly after the shift.  Is this occurring?   If the converter remains locked during the shift, the shift will be harsh.

 

- John

I actually witnessed 3rd LO today, only noticed for a very short period of time on the quad screen, never seen it before and didn't feel a thing, with OD on my truck spends no time in 3rd LU, I doubt it was actually in 3rd LU as it was so fast I don't think the trans could have executed the change, I think the PCM commanded 3rdLU for a split second but then decided on OD

[Mopar1973Man]

3rd LU will only happen in the the OD switch is OFF. Even my old 1996 Dodge was that way.

[wil440]

16 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

3rd LU will only happen in the the OD switch is OFF. Even my old 1996 Dodge was that way.

That's what I thought as I've never felt it happen but I moved my quad screen a little closer to me so I could pay a bit more attention to the little LU light and it does light when in 3rd with OD on, It was very brief and I'm not saying that the convertor actually locked as it was so quick and I never felt a thing and it then went straight into OD and then LU once revs were right