Angry & can't do it anymore, serious iQuad timing issues

[jag]

14 psi should be 81, not 87. Strange it showed that in the picture.

 

Timing perimeters are 0.0 - 0.0 - 100% - 0.0 - 35%

 

RPM Max. 16.0 - 20.0 - 23.0 - 26.0 - 28.0 

Edited April 11, 2022 by jag
Double info.

[Stanley]

Gonna plug all that in here before I leave and test it out. Timing and fuel. 

[Stanley]

Well I had to try it lol but not even close. Truck barely moved haha. 

Back to the other one now. 

I don't think buying another turbo and another set of injectors is a smart idea, to then turn around and buy another turbo or 2 at a later date then have a turbo and injectors set just sitting around that I really didn't want or need in the first place. Just my take on it. 

I'd rather figure out how to make this one work till further upgrades can be had. So maybe I'll have to deal with egts above 600 idk. The other day there was a light head wind and I was 950-1050 all the way into town! 

If the quad is supposed to help and manage things to an extent and I can't get anything I'm  needing that's it's supposed to do, maybe I'm on my 7th set of bad injectors??? 

Does anyone else have a similar setup and get better than 12 mpg and lower than 800-900 egt's cruising?? 

 

Sorry for the rant, just getting more irritated again that I can't seem to get this figured out and I'm frustrated. 

 

It's funny, I don't really remember my previous setup which was an insane amount  of fuel ever getting hot as it does now 1400-1500* not even trying lol. 

[jag]

That funny. mine leaves like a gasser, I don't want to sound A*******SH, but are you getting dialed in right. That thing should leave like missile. What size are your lines. Do not dump the 6 x 13.

Just now, jag said:

That funny. mine leaves like a gasser, I don't want to sound A*******SH, but are you getting dialed in right. That thing should leave like missile. What size are your lines. Do not dump the 6 x 13.

PUT A SPRING GATE ON IT FROM STAINLESS & BE DONE.

 

[Stanley]

18 minutes ago, jag said:

That funny. mine leaves like a gasser, I don't want to sound A*******SH, but are you getting dialed in right. That thing should leave like missile. What size are your lines. Do not dump the 6 x 13.

I went from the .093 lines and tubes back to stock... started with a DF pump, .093 lines and tubes, 6x18's, same turbo, cam, etc. 

Tried 6x18, 7x15, 6x13. Long story on all of it... now it's stock pump, lines, tubes, all new... 5th or sixth set of injectors from dap (new 6x13). Sig is up to date. 

23 minutes ago, jag said:

but are you getting dialed in right

That's the problem, I can't get it right. Been taking suggestions as they come, I'm just can't get the hang of all this via reading, I need taught via hands on and explanations... Just friggin difficult. 

I've tried only 65mph max every day, easing into the pedal, trying to get some mpg and egts down and level but it just isn't happening. Just better than What I've previously had and it's still the same.....

[LorenS]

4 hours ago, Stanley said:

I don't think buying another turbo and another set of injectors is a smart idea, to then turn around and buy another turbo or 2 at a later date then have a turbo and injectors set just sitting around that I really didn't want or need in the first place.

4 hours ago, Stanley said:

The other day there was a light head wind and I was 950-1050 all the way into town!

2 hours ago, Stanley said:

I've tried only 65mph max every day, easing into the pedal, trying to get some mpg and egts down and level but it just isn't happening

 

Maybe those are the reasons why it IS, in fact, smart to have a stockish turbo and a less insane set of injectors lying around.  As far as turbo and injectors you don't need, I believe that is what currently installed on your engine. 

 

$425 for 7x.010 VCO, including estimated freight

$200? Anyone you know with an HX35 lying around

$20 Mike's 28 MPG tune
PRICELESS: No more aggravation and high MPG, for the low low price of around $645 which you can surely recoup by selling your current injectors and turbo better suited to a 14L engine.

 

Sincerely,
Grumpy "Dave Ramsey" Grandpa

[Stanley]

19 hours ago, LorenS said:

Maybe those are the reasons why it IS, in fact, smart to have a stockish turbo and a less insane set of injectors lying around

This is true, you make a valid point and completely see where your coming from. 

19 hours ago, LorenS said:

As far as turbo and injectors you don't need, I believe that is what currently installed on your engine. 

Probably very true and makes common sense 🤣 I'm not a young kid or an old fart yet, I'm right in the middle and still would like a little play time, I think alot can attest to that lol. 

 

I really think I would have a hard time selling my turbo, just don't know anyone and fb market place you get all kinds of riff raff from there; injectors I could prolly keep till down the road perhaps. 

I know I don't need what I got, I tried to make it better by getting smaller all NEW pump, lines, tubes, injectors and thought I'd be golden... not so much at the moment... 

I guess best case scenario I'd like to (make it work) best as possible till I can find a way/save up for twins and save what little money I have for that goal, whether it makes sense or I'm off my rocker idk. 

If I knew what an "acceptable" egt # would be that might help. Everything seems fine otherwise. Timing (might be a smidge high?) Or I have lifter knock, or what kinda sounds like valve or valve train knock, idk.

Its very light though. Gets up and a scoots however!

But 900 and 1000* just worries me @ cruise that is...

 

There gain I could have bad injectors once more...dribbling or maybe that's the knock hmm 🤔 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Stanley
Addition context

[tucothelegend]

I was just wondering,  at cruise what is the cambus reading? Mine reads 550 to 1000. Mostly around 650. That's at 1500 rpm and 19%- 23% load at 55 mph. That's right around 650 egt's. With Mike's ECO tune, modified by me, I am getting 23 mpg with the AC going. With only 0-5psi of boost I have the cambus set from 70 to 72. It also, with lite load is at 21.25 timing. My truck with DDP 75hp injectors likes alot of timing. It has 24 at 2100rpm going 75mph 5-6 psi boost and right around 825 cambus reading. Gets 19mpg. I made a 1 mile blast on level 3 got 35psi of boost, and was going over 115mph and only saw 1300 on my egt's. If u r cruising and your cambus reading is over 1000 you have to much fuel for the amount of air. That's causing your egt's to be so high. It just may be the less expensive injectors you have, (I know you have had many sets.) I believe DDP'S injectors are far superior,  but they cost almost double. I have been following your dilemma,  and it just sounds like it's your injectors. Only fuel can cause egts to be high if the timing is right and the air is right. So more air for the fuel, or less fuel for the air will get you where you want to be..... good luck, hope you find the solution 👍 

[jag]

Stanley;

Have you had the chance of trying another ECM.

I have my cap on backwards now, & clearly something is not as it should be.

I will try & take a video of my truck today, weather permitting. You will see what my point is at leaving, & how fast it comes on & refuse's to quit before I let off, or it tries to mess me up.

It is snowing at the present.

 

 

As soon as I add fuel, my S468 starts to spool. From burb on throttle & up. I only make 43 lbs. boost, but look at the air I am moving. 90 plus lbs.  

[Stanley]

No haven't tried that. I thought about seeing if I could get it re flashed,but I wanna make sure they will put my 3 cylinder high idle and high idle back on cause most won't... I mentioned to moparman that maybe there is a "tune" latched to it still from PO that he forgot, or forgot to tell me? Idk anything is possible. 

If there is any video or whatever I can make or provide let me know. 

Currently still at the provided:

15, 19, 25, 28, 30

The 90 up canbus fuel curve

2*, 5*, 50%, 2*, 28% (or 30%)

 

Edit: I just thought of an old buddy that might be able to re-flash mine or possibly loan me one to test, I'll contact him today and check...

Edited April 13, 2022 by Stanley
Additional information

[Stanley]

Well I found a contact to call this week about my ecu, so that's in the works.

 

I fixed my wastegate issue for now. Got it set at 55psi. Made a nice setup with a regulator right at the turbo. 

Here is the wastegate rod issue I mentioned previously. 

I pried more on it but it still isn't what I'd like to have. Very limited space! 

 

I will be monitoring egts and boost numbers this week and see what happens.

 

I need to figure out that knock or what ever it is. I think it's valve train but at the same time, I've had a different noise everytime I've changed injectors. Which leads me to believe with the egts and noise it could be injectors?

 

I'd almost put money on it! 

 

Only under load and/or higher rpms.

Been doing research on lifters, and valve train issues. If it's valves I'm screwed, either way I'd have to pull head to be certain on most of it...

[Stanley]

So todays drive into work wasnt to bad. Egts were pretty decent too, could be better but so far its manageable. My oil temp is still same as coolant temp, as @Mopar1973Mansays. oil temp should be lower than coolant for proper timing. The iQuad still is confusing no matter how many times I read it, its like everything affects another thing which affects another. Kinda planning 2 steps ahead lol. So which do you work first? Timing only - which band? Or max load, low psi reduct, reduct scaling - seems to be either 50% or 100% for most people?

 

 

I attached a snippet from this mornings drive in, at the end I gave it some throttle too, egt buzzer didnt ding at me yay! lol. 

iQuad-2022-04-18-05.28.20-579684091[1].csv

[Stanley]

Stupid question, does fuel stretch matter if your not running a wire tap? 

 

What does matter in that (wire tap) section on the quad? 

[Mopar1973Man]

If there is no wire tap then that whole section is not used. Another thing level 0, 1, 2, and 3 are not using wire tap section either.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Stanley]

Dumb question, will vibrating or (over vibrating) lines cause any injection issues? 

 

 

 

Just a tid bit...The new line set I got didn't exactly line up with what I consider factory, the hardware mounts/locations are not factory either but I made it work regardless. Lines are very close to each other but I gentle massaged them to were there atleast not touching. 

 

 

 

I noticed today that I can hear what sounds like a syringe being pressed quickly making that hard squirt sound if that makes sense. Yes I know squirt/injection sa.e thing but this didn't sound right to me. I'll attach a sound clip, obviously capturing exact replicas of sounds is difficult to do but...

 

#3 & #4 injection lines vibrate more and you can feel a harder pulse on them too...

 

This makes me think once more that the injector are bad AGAIN! Idk?!?! 

 

I also can hear what sounds like a dud/light miss at around 2200 and also again at another rpm but I can't remember right now. This is with the quad on zero...

 

This all falls in line with the noise I hear while driving interstate, sounds like timing but also sounds like valve issue or something or like a half working injector... If you can conjure up that noise/feeling in your head. Just too hard to describe. 

 

 

 

The quad in zero doesn't have any more smoke than my tune and still has some get up?!?! Why no more smoke with the absense of added timing, questionable... Fail on me I haven't chatted with the guy to do my ecu yet but in the works.... 

 

With that white smoke on start up and pretty good haze on startup there after for a bit if idling. 

 

 

 

Also to note AGAIN I haven't had any dark smoke like one would see with big injectors ever! Idk why but I think you would notice it should at some point.............

 

 

 

Still haven't figured out timing... moved from 15, 19, 25, 28, 30 to 14, 18, 22, 26, 28... with no change really to speak of. I'll pay you to come tune it haha, even give you a place to stay. 

 

 Lots to take in, main thing that could be an issue is bad injectors, tune already on ecu, valvetrain issues, lines, timing. Idk. Can't figure out how to separate the timing from valvetrain issues or valve for that matter. Anyway just an update please respond with any help! 

 

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that when you first start up that it sounds like normal for a revolution then drops down real low then picks back up, 20% of the time it might die---- ithimk this ties into the fuel pressure issue I'm having on gauge, injector bleeding off??? Also to add to this is the white smoke on startup, and the other issue mentioned previously. Am I crazy or does this chalk up to the injectors again? Like I've said previously the sounds I've heard way back in conversations all differ from injector sets going bad and intern being bad. 

Most noticeable sound now is heard around 2100-2200 rpm (loudest) but also heard all around...

[Stanley]

Bump for some Sunday thoughts? 

[Great work!]

Any air in fuel line? Use a clear hose between the filter and pump look for foam. Could be some clutch rattle. Loose exhaust bolts or turbo bolts can make weird sounds too. You can usually go a little tighter on valve lash on a broke in motor, just need to have some jiggle room when warm.

[Stanley]

I'm gonna change out my turbo to downpipe v-band clamp, might have a suspect area idk yet. When I checked flow cause I didn't see pressure, had flow and didn't have any foam etc, however didn't have a looped clear tube to be more precise. Idk how many times I've done valve lash in the past couple of months, but I'm gonna do it again anyway. 

 

 

Idk if I should pop those injectors out anyway and get them testes and re popped at 320 bar. 

All my little points I made lead to injectors from what I can see? 

[Mopar1973Man]

+50HP should be popped at 310 bar. If your doing +150HP I would pop 320 bar. 

[Stanley]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:01 AM, Stanley said:

Dumb question, will vibrating or (over vibrating) lines cause any injection issues? 

 

 

 

Just a tid bit...The new line set I got didn't exactly line up with what I consider factory, the hardware mounts/locations are not factory either but I made it work regardless. Lines are very close to each other but I gentle massaged them to were there atleast not touching. 

 

 

 

I noticed today that I can hear what sounds like a syringe being pressed quickly making that hard squirt sound if that makes sense. Yes I know squirt/injection sa.e thing but this didn't sound right to me. I'll attach a sound clip, obviously capturing exact replicas of sounds is difficult to do but...

 

#3 & #4 injection lines vibrate more and you can feel a harder pulse on them too...

 

This makes me think once more that the injector are bad AGAIN! Idk?!?! 

 

I also can hear what sounds like a dud/light miss at around 2200 and also again at another rpm but I can't remember right now. This is with the quad on zero...

 

This all falls in line with the noise I hear while driving interstate, sounds like timing but also sounds like valve issue or something or like a half working injector... If you can conjure up that noise/feeling in your head. Just too hard to describe. 

 

 

 

The quad in zero doesn't have any more smoke than my tune and still has some get up?!?! Why no more smoke with the absense of added timing, questionable... Fail on me I haven't chatted with the guy to do my ecu yet but in the works.... 

 

With that white smoke on start up and pretty good haze on startup there after for a bit if idling. 

 

 

 

Also to note AGAIN I haven't had any dark smoke like one would see with big injectors ever! Idk why but I think you would notice it should at some point.............

 

 

 

Still haven't figured out timing... moved from 15, 19, 25, 28, 30 to 14, 18, 22, 26, 28... with no change really to speak of. I'll pay you to come tune it haha, even give you a place to stay. 

 

 Lots to take in, main thing that could be an issue is bad injectors, tune already on ecu, valvetrain issues, lines, timing. Idk. Can't figure out how to separate the timing from valvetrain issues or valve for that matter. Anyway just an update please respond with any help! 

 

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that when you first start up that it sounds like normal for a revolution then drops down real low then picks back up, 20% of the time it might die---- ithimk this ties into the fuel pressure issue I'm having on gauge, injector bleeding off??? Also to add to this is the white smoke on startup, and the other issue mentioned previously. Am I crazy or does this chalk up to the injectors again? Like I've said previously the sounds I've heard way back in conversations all differ from injector sets going bad and intern being bad. 

Most noticeable sound now is heard around 2100-2200 rpm (loudest) but also heard all around...

Any more thoughts? 

I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and go with out a rig this week or 2 and pull injectors... idk what else to do now.