Turbo/Injector balance for towing/EGT control

[Hutch24v]

Hey All - new paying member to the forum. Taking a break from the CF for a bit.  Question is all too familiar I suspect. Trying to decide what to do with my 2nd gen to optimize my setup. I'm towing - or should say carrying a new truck camper (~2800 lbs) and lately going through the Washington state mountain passes and ridgelines. Lots of long slopes. My signature shows my mods but mainly I want to see if I'd be better served by increasing my injector size from 50HP to 100 to better pair with the Fleece HX35 63/65 turbo i'm running. I do see a bunch of lag even with the Quad tow tune I'm running that i had the guys @ DAP build for me. I control EGTs on long inclines mainly with my foot and disabling O/D when its start to climb above 1250 F. I also have a new uninstalled ATS Aurora 3000 turbo on hand i've been thinking of installing as its sized for fast spool up with a 58 mm inducer and for towing applications. Thinking that this maybe a better choice of a towing turbo with 100 HP injectors. I don't need any more power than 450 HP which is the power limit my 47re was rebuilt for. Hopefully this is enough to help some folks weigh in.  Cheers!

[Me78569]

if you have an ats 3000 I would put that on there and see how it goes with the injectors you have..  I have never been a fan of modded hx35's as I think you are better off using a newer platform turbo.  

 

I also really do not like DDP, they are hot smokey and expensive compared to everything else out there.  Guessing your main issue if the DDP injectors.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Me78569

[Hutch24v]

That's where i was leaning - installing the ats 3000. i'm indifferent about the injectors. They perform fine, not too smoky and only briefly when I stomp on the pedal.  but I do hear that 50% complain about DDP and the other half like them.  The next set I buy will be likely be thru DAP. 

[Me78569]

I would wager dinner and   beer that some DAP 7 x.010's would run cleaner and cooler while putting down more power than your current 50's

 

After trying to tune a ton of trucks with DDP's I have pretty much thrown in the towel on them.

[Hutch24v]

Ya. what about 7 x.09s - 100HP vs .010s? Trying to keep the fuel to my turbo size optimal.  Perhaps i'll just need to adjust the quad tune afterwards. 

[Me78569]

Vp trucks shoulda shipped with 7 x .010's from the factory.  I prefer more injector + less aggressive tuning.  Gives you the same power with less heat and better mpg in my experience.

 

 

However nothing from with 7 x .009's too.  

 

The ats 3000 can handle either.

[Hutch24v]

Good info. I've got a few things to install on the truck including the ATS 3000 and a new manifold so why not just keep going  with some new injectors while I'm at it! 

 

[Me78569]

One thing at a time, but I'd expect to replace the injectors

[Mopar1973Man]

I just made a trip to Bridgeport, CA 1400 miles roughly. Climbing up to 7,500 feet. With my 31 foot RV, ATV in the bed I weighed out at 17,500 pounds. Now... the truck I'm running 150 HP injectors on stock HX35W turbo (54/60/12). No EGT issues at all using my towing tune on my Quadzilla. Biggest thing is final ratio. Mine is 3.69:1 after tires (245/75 R16). Running 2k at 66 MPH. Perfect towing setup.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Hutch24v]

Sounds good. I’ve got some bigger tires 285/75/16s so I’m probably not helping  I would like to see that tune you’re running.  I’ve tried to go deep on tweaking all the quad parameters myself but I’ve decided I’ll just leave that to others.  

[Mopar1973Man]

Huge problem you just made the ratio to tall and adding stress to the driveline and increasing EGTs. Smaller tires and proper final ratio between 3.55 to 3.73 is optimal. 

 

Your currently 3.42 final ratio with 285/75 R16 with 3.55 gears.

 

Beast is currently 3.69 final ratio with 245/75 R16 with 3.55 gears. Then I made that trip to California hauling my 31 foot RV to 7,500 feet elevation never even worried about EGTs with 150 HP injectors and STOCK HX35W turbo.

 

Thor is 3.73 final with 265/70 R17 with 3.73 gears. I left this truck pure stock because of optimal gear ratio for the weight roughly 9,000 pounds.

 

Final ratio is huge impact on EGTs. Here is a example. Again I've got no EGT issues and super high MPG number at 28.04 MPG. Ratio does matter number 1 on my list.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Hutch24v]

That 400+ temperature is bananas. That's my idle temperature in gear. Assume in that video you're pulling your RV? I just bought new tires too so unlikely to downsize to stock. I'm also liking the less aggressive tread on these than the previous which is a big plus on the highway. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Hutch24v

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Hutch24v said:

That 400+ temperature is bananas. That's my idle temperature in gear. Assume in that video you're pulling your RV?

Empty truck on flat ground at 55 MPH. Towing the RV at 55 MPH it only rises to 600*F on flat ground. Like I said final ratio is a huge factor in what EGT's are going to be. More I've played with other customers trucks and most having tires like 33 to 35 inch tirs they all have extremely high EGT's because of improper final ratio with tires. If you running above a 265/75 R16 you should be running 4.10 gears for the over sized tires. From 265/75 R16 and smaller you can keep the 3.55 gears but optimally the 245/75 R16 are the best combo for towing. That is a perfect 66 MPH at 2,000 RPM can't get any better. Even running empty at 80 MPH on the interstate I'm twisting 2,450 RPM at 80 MPH but still get close to 20 MPG. Again EGT's barely 700 degrees at 80 MPH.

 

Even with 30 to 40 MPH head winds going across Nevada desert I was floating 800 to 1,000 degrees in EGT at 60 MPH. Yeah I'll admit the MPG was way lower but 10 to 11 MPG wasn't to shabby. Just look in my yard of the customers rigs I get to play with and see how different tires and power combo work. I still beat them all with Beast with that super low EGT's with a stock turbo, 150HP injectors, and Quadzilla with my Economy tune.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Hutch24v]

 Impressive numbers and view! What about EGTs over a long steep grade fully loaded? That's what I need to contend with. I'm hitting around 1150 @ 60/65 (probably more like 70 with the tires) on a couple of steep mountain passes in WA with the truck & camper loaded ~10K lbs.  If I crest 1250 i usually drop out of O/D which then drops the temp 150 or so degrees. 

[Me78569]

I think it is unrealistic to not gear down loaded down that much going over a pass.     RPM's keep egt's down when towing.  the 5.9 makes peak torque above 1800 rpm up to ~2200-2400 rpm.   anything below that is going to generate EGT's as the engine is just not designed to work down there.

[Hutch24v]

Yep agreed. Honestly I think my EGTs are manageable and I watch them like a hawk. On ave the MPG with the camper is around 15 so its not great but acceptable. Last run I made with it was just over. My main focus for now is to address some of the laggy turbo. 

[Mopar1973Man]

What is your RPM in top gear at 65 MPH? What sized tires are you running?

[Threadzy]

I’m running a hybrid I pieced together. Between that my injectors and a

Quad it lights fast and tows like a mofo! 

[Hutch24v]

About 1760 RPM @ 65. Mentioned the tires earlier - 285/75/16. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Yea... too low of ratio for sure. Gotta remember I talk to so many people no way to remember and yeah I don't re-read the whole thread every time..  sorry about that.