Higher flow exhaust manifolds?

[wh82]

I see a bunch of debate topics about this brand vs that brand, but I have a more specific question. It looks like I'm needing a new manifold

Currently stock, looking at the ATS 1 piece PulseFlow. 

Of course as sales points they claim: more performance, faster turbo spool, lower egts etc...

My question.. which of these are true and which are false? Anyone have any real data? I see on a couple of posts that people claim actually spooling slower and loosing overall power using a more open manifold over stock? At what injector size does a larger manifold actually make sense?

Runnin DAP +75hp injectors and an S300 turbo. Should I just hunt for a stock replacement?

[Me78569]

I would call DAP up and ask what they have.  

 

I think for your setup you would be hard pressed to notice a difference in the manifold you put on.

[wh82]

I'm ok if the performance stays the same, just don't want to hurt it. higher reliability parts are always welcome.

[Me78569]

stock one lasted 21 years.  that's pretty reliable 

[wh82]

12 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

stock one lasted 21 years.  that's pretty reliable

 

Just cause it's a stock part doesn't mean it's original ;) I have no idea to be honest its got 1 bolt in the back that doesn't match and is the one that came loose causing the leak... so seems like previous owners did something. Running ~180k miles.

[Me78569]

true,  

 

regardless I would call DAP and see what they can do for you.   I wouldn't spend a lot and I would worry about extra flow with your current setup.

[Hutch24v]

yeah I kind of agree with the sentiments above from Me78569.  I installed a 3-peice pulse flow manifold from ATS along with an upgraded ATS turbo and I haven't noticed a ton of measureable benefit. Looks nicer than stock in the engine bay and they do come with pre-tapped pyro holes which was a benefit. See link to my little upgrade here if you're interested -> 

 

[Silverwolf2691]

For the most part, the 3 piece ones don't help power much. They are mostly used to help with the cracking issues that some have experienced. The two that are known for more power are the stainless diesel manifold and steed speed. Both are more expensive than the 3 piece ones though. There are a couple equal length tubular manifolds as well, but those have other issues, including cost.

 

Equal length ones will change the sound quite a bit. They also have some cracking issues but I believe that is similar to gasser header cracking issues. They are more expensive than steed and stainless.

Edit: this is @VMac822.. didn't realize that initially lol. @VMac822did you have another video with this header or is this the only one? There was another tubular header cummins with a Garrett turbo that I can't find the video of.

 

Steed speed is well known in the performance realm. They flow more than factory due to better design and smoother Insides since it is machined and welded together versus sand cast. They have have a competition manifold as well but it probably kills streetability because it would slow down exhaust gas velocity at normal rpms.

 

This kind of comes down to what you are looking for. All the options I listed are expensive but are known to improve power, however they are expensive. If you don't care about power but cost is important, stick with a 3 piece or similar. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Silverwolf2691

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm still running a stock exhaust manifold with stock HX35W turbo (54/60/12) with 150 HP DAP injectors (7 x 0.010) popped at 320 bar. No flow issues, no EGT issues either. My normal cruising EGTs are about 550°F at 65 MPH @ 1,975 RPMs. Engine oil temp is even low at 158°F to 165°F, Beast, doesn't create heat anywhere.

 

I do not see the need for manifolds either intake or exhaust maybe up past 600 HP I would consider maybe thinking of it. But right at 500 HP Nope.

 

I've towed my RV from Idaho to the mountains of California, no heat issues. Then been on a road trip to Seattle WA. That trip cleared 300 miles just a quarter tank getting to the Idaho state line. 

 

Flow isn't the issue, bigger issue is proper setup and tuning goes much farther than throwing a bunch of parts trying to fix heat issues.

[Hutch24v]

You need to clean the dust of that dash cluster Mike! 

[dieselautopower]

Not a ton of power to gain with an exhaust manifold.  The 3pc will often lower EGT a little.  The real high flow versions will often give up the pulsing feature when they switch to more of a log style and that will make spool up suffer.

 

We now offer our manifolds in with silver or black ceramic coating for $50.

[Mopar1973Man]

37 minutes ago, Hutch24v said:

You need to clean the dust of that dash cluster Mike! 

Older photo already done. Even Armor-All'ed the dash.

[hdpwipmonkey]

8 hours ago, dieselautopower said:

Not a ton of power to gain with an exhaust manifold.  The 3pc will often lower EGT a little.  The real high flow versions will often give up the pulsing feature when they switch to more of a log style and that will make spool up suffer.

 

We now offer our manifolds in with silver or black ceramic coating for $50.

Ceramic coating... me likey!

 

[wh82]

On 11/7/2022 at 8:29 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

with 150 HP DAP injectors

well yeah, you're not going to have the concern I had which nobody has really answered except maybe:

On 11/8/2022 at 10:01 AM, dieselautopower said:

The real high flow versions will often give up the pulsing feature when they switch to more of a log style and that will make spool up suffer.

I didn't want my small little 75's to not have enough velocity to spool my turbo because I increased the manifold's size...

 

For now I fixed my leak, noticed the stock has shrunk a bit, but not enough to cause a problem just yet.

[Hutch24v]

34 minutes ago, wh82 said:

I didn't want my small little 75's to not have enough velocity to spool my turbo because I increased the manifold's size...

i currently run 50s and the 3-pc manifold has less of an spool impact than the size of the turbo they're paired with. if you size your injector to the turbo coupled with the right tune a higher flowing manifold can only help performance in aggregate. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Hutch24v

[weissguy01]

I only went with a 3 piece to prevent cracking.  In my mind, it made sense for the expansion/ contraction.

[Sycostang67]

I got mine as a combo manifold/turbo from DAP, oddly enough they didn't bolt up together which resulted in me having to remove some threads.  I had to do it again when I flipped the manifold over to install my compound setup.  When I put on the 3 piece and S300, my EGT's seemed higher at first and went even higher when I added the 100hp injectors.  Tuning with the Quad helped get that in check though.   I can't wait to start towing next year and see how the compounds perform with a load.  I only got to tow twice with just the S300 and it wasn't through any really hilly terrain, mostly flat and some small hills but it did just fine.  

 

I really wish DAP had been ceramic coating when I got my manifold.  The shop that coated mine royally botched it.  I don't think they did any prep work as all the coating flaked off in a couple weeks.  

[VMac822]

On 11/7/2022 at 5:04 PM, Silverwolf2691 said:

Equal length [manifolds] will change the sound quite a bit. They also have some cracking issues but I believe that is similar to gasser header cracking issues. They are more expensive than steed and stainless.

Edit: this is @VMac822.. didn't realize that initially lol. @VMac822did you have another video with this header or is this the only one? There was another tubular header cummins with a Garrett turbo that I can't find the video of.

 

Steed speed is well known in the performance realm. They flow more than factory due to better design and smoother Insides since it is machined and welded together versus sand cast. They have have a competition manifold as well but it probably kills streetability because it would slow down exhaust gas velocity at normal rpms.

 

This kind of comes down to what you are looking for. All the options I listed are expensive but are known to improve power, however they are expensive. If you don't care about power but cost is important, stick with a 3 piece or similar. 

Hey Silverwolf, I missed this before but I can give some feedback on the header.   Yes it does change the sound some, smoother for sure.  I like it!

 

The main reasons headers didn't gain popularity is the cost versus benefit, plus concerns about durability and killing low end spool.  Mine was manufactured around 2009 and I grabbed it used for $700 in 2012.  It was made by Polydyn the coating company, and it is well built. The original owner ceramic coated it.  He hammered pretty hard on it, raced his truck.  Since I put it on it has had a pretty easy life.  I've driven around 130k miles.  

 

I don't think the header provides much practical improvement over a stock manifold until you're in the 450+ HP range, and at that point I'd say do a steed or similar manifold.  I think a header should be beneficial when you get into competition level performance though.  Firepunk built a header for a race truck and it competed well. . . t looks a little intense and too many bends IMO.

 

Anyway I have a larger turbo on my truck now, it spools well and the header may even help.  I think it's a S363 with 73/80 turbine (14cm housing) dual BB.  I have no data to speak of, I've had a lot going on and don't even have gauges in the truck at the moment.  But it starts spooling around 1200 and very good daily driver.  Now that I have the Colt stage 3 cam it pulls great in the midrange through redline, the cam/header/turbo is a good combo.  I have a lot going on but I can't wait to get my Adrenalin installed (likely Spring) and tune it up.  I have 75ph generic VCO injectors and Smarty C03. I took a road trip to Wisconsin via Kansas in October.  My 2wd short box turned 20-21 MPG rolling in the high 70s, later on driving slower the last 2 tanks headed east were right at 24 mpg. Driving home with headwind and some winter blend it dropped to 20.0 to 21.5.  I have a G56 6 speed, 3.54 axle, 275/55R20 tires.  

 

Below is the video you may have been looking for, there are 2 that will give you sound clips. I need to do some new ones now that I have the manual trans!  I am thinking about redoing my exhaust again. . .make it louder. LOL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by VMac822