Death wobble issue rears it ugly head again

[Doubletrouble]

 Ok, I've had a this issue before but very random and not very often at all.  Yesterday I was on the highway at 60-70 mph and hit a bridge transition and it went nuts! Again less than a mile or two later. With traffic behind me I had to smash the brakes down to 25mph to get it to stop. Luckily no one rear ended me! 

 I absolutely have to get this sorted out! I replaced the track bar approximately a year to year and a half ago. It was a lower priced one from Rock Auto. I have replaced the left outer tie rod as well. 

 I have read that the track bar is usually to blame but I want to be 100% sure it is fixed for good this time. 

 Any advise or guidance here would be appreciated.

 Also, just to bring this into the conversation, would it be advisable to upgrade to the heavy duty mopar steering kit? Maybe the 3rd gen track bar? I don't know. I just need this to stop once and for all.

[Mopar1973Man]

Shocks and tire balance are the first two I would chase. 

[Doubletrouble]

Forgot to mention,  shocks are less than 6 months old.

[Mopar1973Man]

Still I would verify that the shocks didn't lose their gas charge. All it takes is a bad shaft seal and the gas charge could leak out.Then I would have all tires rebalanced to true zero. Being you need something rotating at speed that is out of balance. 

[Royal Squire]

If it were me I would lay under the front end with a good light and have someone work the steering wheel back and forth with enthusiasm while you look for loose parts. Just because track bar isn’t very old doesn’t mean it’s good. 

[Tractorman]

 

 

First, I have never experienced death wobble.  However, I have read a lot about it and I do understand the concept of death wobble.  If this were to happen with my truck, I would be just as concerned as you are. 

 

While you are pondering what to do, here is a good read on death wobble. 

 

https://www.thurenfabrication.com/pages/death-wobble-explained

 

Just a couple of the usual questions - are you running stock tire and wheel size?  And, is your truck still at the stock lift height?

 

2 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

would it be advisable to upgrade to the heavy duty mopar steering kit? Maybe the 3rd gen track bar? I don't know.

 

I personally think that the OEM track bar is of poor design.  The sleeved bushing on the axle end is quality - the steering type ball joint on the other end should have been a sleeved bushing as well (like the third generation).   This is one item that I would replace (with or without the death wobble).  I did replace mine with a Rare Parts adjustable track bar - still a ball joint style, but a much larger diameter ball stud and socket.  I have logged over 150,000 miles with that track bar and it is still doing fine, but as hind sight, I think I would have rather used the third generation adjustable track bar for reliability and ease of future replacement.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would check every dynamic suspension and steering component for wear.  Here's how I perform my checks.  I rig my video camera (mobile phone) on a portable stand and make videos of each movable part.  For example - a tie rod end: 

 

*  The truck needs to be setting on a hard surface with the tires pointed in the straight ahead position.   Place the camera near the tie rod end to be checked and start the video.  Get in the driver seat and start the engine.  Slowly (about 1 second per cycle) begin moving the steering wheel back and forth about 15° from center in each direction several times.  This will put a significant load on each suspension and steering component.  The video playback will show if the component is worn.

 

A long time ago, I considered switching to the "T" type steering, but I changed my mind.   After setting caster to a positive 4 1/2° and using the heavier track bar, my truck steers and handles far better than when it was new. 

 

The one thing that seems to stand out from people reporting death wobble is that the solution many times seems to be vague.  After replacing many parts, the death wobble disappears.  Many people report that the last component replaced is what cured the death wobble.   I am not so convinced.  

 

Personally, I think that the cause of death wobble rarely comes from one single condition.  That is why I think a close inspection of steering and suspension components is needed.

 

- John

 

 

 

 

(

[JAG1]

Thank you John for this inportant discussion and information. Important enough to know that 'Death Wobble'  just isn't the wife dancing on your grave. Thank you.

Edited March 18, 2023 by JAG1

[Doubletrouble]

@Tractorman, I should have mentioned that the tires and wheels are all of stock size and design. Wheels are OEM steel wheels.

 No lift kits of any kind. Truck sits at stock ride height.

 @Mopar1973Man, I will check the shocks as you mentioned. Wheel balancing will have to be done by a shop or add balance beads as a diy thing.

 

 Another question.

 Is there a good way to check the bushings in the control arms? I know they don't really move alot but at this point I just want to know everything is good.

[Mopar1973Man]

Being I witnessed a death wobble while riding my Goldwing I can say that imagine the axle hoping up and down left to right sides. The truck still travels straight but the axle is bouncing up and down.

[Doubletrouble]

More of an osilation side to side I think.

 I found a video on YouTube. Hope the link works.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

The one I seen was hoping vertical more so that toe wise like the video. 

[Doubletrouble]

 Here is another video of death wobble. 

 The shaking starts about 35 seconds in.

 

 

 And, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the second video with the T style steering? That's supposed to be an upgrade correct? Mine has the OEM Y type steering linkage.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just food for thought why is it that Beast is at 463k miles and never had death wobble? I've still got Y style yet too. Cheap ACDelco ball joints with over 250k miles. Napa track bar and tie rod ends. Current shocks are KYB and Napa steering dampener.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 I'll be checking it out today. My daughter will be over later to turn the wheel while I look closely at any thing that moves. 

 I may remove the steering damper to check that as well. I assume they need resistance in both directions to be effective?

 I am also suspect of the track bar, it's only been on 15k miles but it was a cheaper offering from RA so maybe quality isn't nearly what it should be?

@Mopar1973Man, are your alignment specs set at factory recommended settings? I only ask because I've read that caster should be adjusted differently to help with this issue.

[Mopar1973Man]

Yup. All OE setting on alignment.

 

Track bar just have second person rock the wheel. Watch for movement at both ends. 

 

Yes steering damper should have resistance both ways.

[Tractorman]

3 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

I assume they need resistance in both directions to be effective?

 

The resistance should be heavy in both directions.  Also equally important is there should no change in resistance when changing direction (push, pull), not even a slight reduction of resistance. 

 

Coincidentally, my steering damper was showing a drop of oil collecting on it and occasionally dripping for the last couple of months.  I ordered an OEM damper from Geno's and I installed it last night.  The old damper moved 2 inches in either direction without resistance. 

 

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Be careful with trying to follow OEM. Like I'm finding out most OEM products are not updated or improved. Where most name brand have improved over OEM (Mopar and/or Cummins).

 

Let's not forget like Cummins thermostats are not produced by Cummins, but Holley/Mr Gasket. Another like Cummins head gasket are produced in China by BLK.

 

So for the steering dampener would do like KYB or similar.

[Doubletrouble]

42 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

So for the steering dampener would do like KYB or similar.

standing! I checked rock auto, they don't show KYB but they do sell Rancho rs5000 steering dampers. I've used rancho shocks in the past, they seemed good.

 I have KYB shocks up front that seem to be good quality, might search for a matching damper.

[Tractorman]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Be careful with trying to follow OEM. Like I'm finding out most OEM products are not updated or improved.

 

I should give a bit more steering history on my truck.   For the first 168,000 miles I was not happy with the steering - specifically poor steering return and I felt I had to constantly steer the truck into and out of curves as well as straight down the road.  The truck would not track straight.  So, after doing some research I decided to significantly increase the degree of caster.    This one action gave impressive results - instant improved performance in steering return and straight ahead tracking.  After a few days I then  removed the steering damper just to feel the difference.  On the highway there was very little difference, off-road I could feel the road in the steering wheel much more.  Just for grins I left the steering damper off for the next 88,000 miles (5 years).    Interestingly enough, the truck continued to handle well and I never had any indication of death wobble.  (Just another piece of information that adds mystery to the actual cause of death wobble.)

 

*  168,000 miles - set caster to positive 4 1/2°

    Remove OEM steering damper (still in good operating condition)

 

*  256,000 miles - install a new steering damper (NAPA)  I decided to re-install the damper for extra insurance against the chance for a death wobble occurrence for an aging truck.  No sense in tempting fate.

 

*  372,000 miles (yesterday) - replace steering damper with OEM (116,000 miles on NAPA damper - leaking and no resistance)   Noted that the NAPA damper uses a 1/2" shaft  and the the OEM damper uses a 5/8" shaft.

 

In my case the OEM damper was still working as designed at 168,000 miles while the NAPA damper failed before 116,000 miles.

 

@Doubletrouble, I am very interested to see what resolves your death wobble issue. 

 

- John

Edited March 19, 2023 by Tractorman
Because I wanted to.

[Doubletrouble]

 Ok, had a chance and a helper so I could get under there and really get a good look at things while my daughter was turning the wheel back and forth. 

 Trackbar is shot, both ends had visible play in them. (It was a cheapo from RA) It only lasted 15k miles. 

 Right outer tie rod has very slight play, time to replace.

Tie rod ends at the pitman arm and at the drag link are both showing slight play as well.

 So in a nutshell, the only good and tight part there is the left outer tie rod I replaced back when I did the trackbar.

 They weren't as bad back in the fall when I checked and greased everything before winter hit. But then again, I didn't have someone rocking the steering wheel at that time either.

 I'll be looking for a better quality trackbar this time around. As far as the steering linkage, I saw a complete kit from Detroit axle. I've used their parts in the past with no problem bit not on a heavy vehicle like this. Anyone have an opinion of them?

 I don't want to have to do all this again next year. Lol

 Also, while I'm replacing everything else, I'll replace the steering damper along with it. It's pretty rusty and looks rough. It's not oem, it's a rancho part.