1997 2500 T Steering swap

[RecoilFreak]

Greetings! I know this has been discussed several times here - I have read all that I can find, but didn't find the answer to my question. My ball joints are worn out, and I would like to convert to a T steering setup. I know plenty of guys have said their Y steering is just fine if setup properly with no lift or big/wide tires. I have a lift and big/wide tires. According to what I have read, the newer style T setup will bolt on, but the taper is different in the knuckles and the pitman arm. I have read there is an HD T setup for 98-99 trucks that will bolt in and have the correct taper, but I cannot find a complete setup like has been mentioned here before. Does anyone know what the taper is if I want to ream the holes? What are the options here? I don't want to spend Synergy or Apex money - just stock style parts. The truck came with an upgraded track bar and mount, so that's not necessary. Is the steering gearbox brace worth the money? Thanks. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Sadly all wear issues are results of lift kits and large tires either T or Y steering will still wear quickly because neither set up will support wide tire or lift kits. Sadly this mod will not stop wear issues.

[Mopar1973Man]

On 9/19/2024 at 1:40 AM, RecoilFreak said:

. Is the steering gearbox brace worth the money? Thanks. 

No. I'm nearly 500k miles on all factory steering equipment and no issues. I'm also a quick ratio steering box which you cannot use till your a 31 or smaller tire. Ball joint 350k miles, tie rods 250k miles. Brakes every 200 to 250k miles. 

 

Steering box brace is a huge pain in the rear. Being your still going to wear the steering box out and try to remove that brace you end up losing parts that are rusted or lose the core because you cannot remove the brace completely. Yeah been there on customers trucks.

[Doubletrouble]

 I have no brace, stock tire size and had no issues. Did have to replace right ball joints at about 180k miles. Have replaced all of the tie rods and front shocks. I was chasing a death wobble problem, it went away after the ball joint replacement.

[Tractorman]

On 9/19/2024 at 12:40 AM, RecoilFreak said:

Is the steering gearbox brace worth the money?

 

With stock sized / near stock sized tires and stock suspension height - I say no.  I am not sure that there would be any benefit even with bigger tires and raised suspension.  I installed a steering brace years ago and I have since removed it. 

 

The one thing that bothered me about the steering brace was that there were only two set screws (90° apart) for centering the bearing on the the Pitman shaft.  That never made sense to me - it always forced the bearing to one side which in turn forced the Pitman shaft to one side, and the set screws would never stay tight. That did made sense to me.  I would think that three set screws at 120° apart would have allowed for accurately centering the bearing and would have kept the set screws tight. 

 

- John

Edited September 29 by Tractorman

[RecoilFreak]

6 hours ago, Tractorman said:

 

With stock sized / near stock sized tires and stock suspension height - I say no.  I am not sure that there would be any benefit even with bigger tires and raised suspension.  I installed a steering brace years ago and I have since removed it. 

 

The one thing that bothered me about the steering brace was that there were only two set screws (90° apart) for centering the bearing on the the Pitman shaft.  That never made sense to me - it always forced the bearing to one side which in turn forced the Pitman shaft to one side, and the set screws would never stay tight. That did made sense to me.  I would think that three set screws at 120° apart would have allowed for accurately centering the bearing and would have kept the set screws tight. 

 

- John

It's pretty easy to modify those pillowblock bearings for three set screws. Like you, I have never liked that design. Seems like the extension on the gearbox should be machined to be a very close fit on the ID of the bearing. Is that not the case? 

 

I drove my truck on an actual trip today to pick up a rented piece of equipment. While backing it up to the trailer on a nice concrete parking lot, my steering was obviously working harder than I would like to turn those 35x12.50x18's. I'd like to give it the best chance I can to live as long as possible. I have the capability of machining parts. Maybe I could make it work. The concept seems sound to me. A shaft supported on both sides of a heavy load will be much more robust than one supported only on one side - even by two bearings. 

 

[Tractorman]

20 minutes ago, RecoilFreak said:

The concept seems sound to me. A shaft supported on both sides of a heavy load will be much more robust than one supported only on one side

 

I agree, the concept seems sound.  If the added bearing is centered and well anchored, then it should be beneficial.  It seems like you may have the equipment and the skills to do that.  Let us know how it turns out if you decide to make the modification.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

Problem isn't the bearing mounting. Like here in Idaho the bearing only last about 2 to 3 years because of mud and salt from winter driving. Then the set screws rust in place making a bearing change nearly impossible. Last one I had to cut off with a torch (hot knife) and replace the entire bracket and bearing. The other problem is where it mounts to the frame it will break the nuts off in the frame too. Rust issues are nuts. So that truck wound up with a sway bar delete.

[RecoilFreak]

@Mopar1973Man Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Road salt cancer is THE WORST. Not bragging at all, but that's not something I have to worry about in Texas. Given that rust is not a concern and I can modify the setup to center and accurately hold the shaft extension; were you in my shoes, would you use one?

[Mopar1973Man]

Nope. Because knowing that if I did have 35" tires my truck would have been a trainwreck and worthless. 

 

35 inch tires on 3.55 gears would net a final ratio of 3.21:1 way too much stress on drivetrain parts. So in the first place I'd never put anything larger than a 31 inch tire on any 3.55 gear axle. This is highly damaging to both axles, suspension and brakes parts. Too much leverage and torque trapping before the axles on the other parts like U joints, transmission and transfer case. Brace is not going to fix any of that. 

 

So in my case I dropped to 245/75 R16 tire from the stock 265/75 R16 tire and that changed me to 3.69:1 final ratio and reduced stress on everything and increased my MPG to nearly 30 MPG. Yes, I've crossed the entire state of Washington from Seattle, WA to the Idaho border for only a 1/4 tank of fuel for 300 mile trip. With 30 inch tires I can use a quick ratio steering box (Blue Top Steering) WITHOUT a brace and enjoy snappy steering with little wear to all suspension parts and brakes last forever. This is not an option for you because the 35 inch tires place too much stress on the steering box and will cause damage to a quick ratio so you need the standard ratio box. Now with a quick ratio I got a truck that drives like a sports car.

 

• Ball joints that last 200K to 300K (AC Delco)
• Tie Rod ends last 250K (AC Delco)
• Brakes 250K (Economy pads NAPA)
• Tires 60K to 80K (Hankook AT2 245/75 R16)

 

Sadly you need 2 inches of tire to lift the axle 1 inch. Then to increase the tire size you add spinning weight for every 1 pound of rotational mass you can drop  like removing 8 pounds off the frame. In my case dropping from 265's to 245's dropped about 20 pounds per tire off which is about 640 pounds off the frame in performance and acceleration is much quicker without the EGT's. Even towing my utility trailer and my tow tune I can stand on the throttle and never really reach too hot touching 1,200 EGT's but that's all. Yeah my truck is used offroad quite a bit.

 

 

You got to look at all angles of the impact of the tires and weight vs just a brace and steering box. 

 

 

With my Jayco trailer and truck on the scale is roughly 17,500 pounds rolling load. Again snappy steering and way better acceleration for towing with little EGT's. Yes, I tow trailers a lot in the summertime, and then in the winter time I might have to travel long distances to get supplies like Lewiston or Boise (3 hours) to get food and supplies. So efficiency and longevity mean way more than appearance. So this is why I wouldn't have the brace nor the 35's tires. Too damaging being that is EXACTLY how I killed my 1972 Dodge Power Wagon and broke a front axle because of oversized tires.

 

Another trick. In the winter I can out-drive anyone with big tires. If you to walk out in the snow your foot will compact snow. Now if you put on snow shoes you can walk on top of the snow. This is why I can't run big tires in the winter because the 245's provide way more traction on ice than a 35 inch would. I've out run other diesels at 55 to 65 MPH on snow covered roads and they can't keep up. Lack of traction due to oversized tires and then more likely to roll over because center of gravity is much higher. Staying low to the ground is much safer.

 

Edited October 1 by Mopar1973Man