Driving with 5th gear removed

[Sherwood507]

Does anyone know of any issues with removing 5th gear from an NV4500 and driving long distance without it?

 

My wife and I are in Fort Myers, FL visiting family. A couple days ago we we on our way to Tampa and I lost 5th gear. We were about 70 miles from where we're staying, so I made sure the other gears sounded normal and we turned around and headed back to Fort Myers.

 

Seeing as we're about 1100 miles from home, and planning on heading back to Ohio in two weeks, I'm trying to weigh my options on the best way to proceed.

 

I'm thinking that I can just take out 5th gear (and the nut), put everything back together, and deal with the repair when I get home. I just wanted to see if there are any unforeseen issues with doing that?

 

I'm open to taking a crack installing a new mainshaft when I get home, I'd just rather not have to try to do it here, or have to take it to a shop. I'm open to having a shop look at it and perform the work, but haven't found any places in Fort Myers that I'm confident have dealt with this issue before. If anyone knows of a place in the Fort Myers area they trust, let me know!

[Tractorman]

@Mopar1973Man,  this fellow needs your wisdom.

 

2 hours ago, Sherwood507 said:

Seeing as we're about 1100 miles from home

 

I can't answer the question of driving the truck without 5th gear, but personally, it would drive me nuts to drive that far in fourth gear.  I will check with the Turbo Diesel Register for a transmission shop recommendation in your area.

 

Edit:  I just made the request through TDR.

 

- John

Edited January 12 by Tractorman

[Mopar1973Man]

I've done a trip from Ontario, OR to New Meadows ID was 125 mile trip in 4th gear limited to 45 MPH. I would suggesting fixing the transmission or haul it on a trailer there.

[Sherwood507]

17 hours ago, Tractorman said:

I can't answer the question of driving the truck without 5th gear, but personally, it would drive me nuts to drive that far in fourth gear.  I will check with the Turbo Diesel Register for a transmission shop recommendation in your area.

 

Edit:  I just made the request through TDR.

 

- John

 

It wasn't so bad driving back to Fort Myers in 4th, but I estimated it'll turn our 17 hour drive into a 20-21 hour drive, so we may have to stop and stay overnight halfway.

 

Thank you for seeing if you can find a place!

 

 

17 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I've done a trip from Ontario, OR to New Meadows ID was 125 mile trip in 4th gear limited to 45 MPH. I would suggesting fixing the transmission or haul it on a trailer there.

 

I brought a few tools to troubleshoot/replace an ABS sensor, but I still need about $200 worth to take the tailstock off, so I'm leaning towards taking it to a shop. I'm just leary of bringing it in and finding out it needs a new mainshaft. If that's the case, I'd like to try and rebuild the transmission myself when I get home. I've never done one before and since there's a lot of good info on here, I'm confident I can do it and have a little fun in the process.

 

Do you think driving with 5th removed could do any damage? I'm good with sticking to 55mph on the drive home, but I'm also wondering if the 5th gear nut supports the transmission case and/or loads the bearings in a way that cause more problems driving that far without it.

[Tractorman]

7 minutes ago, Sherwood507 said:

Thank you for seeing if you can find a place!

 

Yesterday, I put your situation in the "911" section of the TDR, but so far no response - but, it was a weekend.  Here is what I posted,

 

"Trying to help someone out here. Fellow has a '99 2WD Dodge Cummins truck. He is 1100 miles from home and has lost 5th gear. He wants to know if he can remove 5th gear and drive home, or if anyone knows of a reliable manual transmission repair shop in the Fort Myers, Florida area.

Thanks,"

 

I let you know if / when I hear anything.

- John

[Scarecrow]

Once pulled from N Minnesota to Colorado in 4th because the weight of the load would not allow using 5th gear. 55-60mph tops, and milage was about what can be imagined for that kind of thing. No damage to the truck, but you do need to keep a eye on EGT's when on a grade.

 

Mark

Edited January 13 by Scarecrow

[Lund1990]

Find a harbor freight for cheap tools and pull off the tail casing figure out what's going on. 2wd or 4wd? Not much difference in the amount of work tho. 

[Doubletrouble]

 If your going to pull the 5th out why not just put a new one in while you have it apart? At least it should get you home, then to a proper rebuild.

 I rebuilt mine (4x4), they're not extremely hard to do, many good videos online to take you step by step.

 

 

[Sherwood507]

21 hours ago, Lund1990 said:

Find a harbor freight for cheap tools and pull off the tail casing figure out what's going on. 2wd or 4wd? Not much difference in the amount of work tho. 

 

2wd, that's what I ended up doing. Luckily I only had to rebuy a couple things I had at home.

 

 

15 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

 If your going to pull the 5th out why not just put a new one in while you have it apart? At least it should get you home, then to a proper rebuild.

 I rebuilt mine (4x4), they're not extremely hard to do, many good videos online to take you step by step.

 

 

 

I was trying to figure out all my options. Like if I wasn't able to get get the parts in time or if the main shaft spline was shot. Turns out that's not the case, as you can see below. Oh, and thank you for your article on removing the tail housing, that helped a ton!

 

 

During disassembly some of the bolt didn't match the article buy @Doubletrouble, leading me to believe it's been rebuilt at least once before and after getting the tail housing off, it's clear it's been rebuilt. It has a fully splined mainshaft and updated spit nut.

 

Right after removed the tail housing:

 

 

 

After a quick wipe of the main shaft:

 

 

 

Closeup of 5th gear:

 

 

 

The gear slides right on the spline of the main shaft and I couldn't feel any axial play. I realize it might be so small that I couldn't feel it anyway, but no noticeable play was a win for getting this thing back together and home.

 

Given the damage to 5th gear, I'm going to get a new 5th gear. I'm also thinking about having a machine shop grind down the lip on this nut, reinstalling it and putting a new nut behind it as a jam nut. 

 

Any recommendations on where to get the new parts and/or my plan would be appreciated!

[Mopar1973Man]

You are going to need an updated mainshaft and 5th gear. Also take note the torque of that nut is very high like 300 foot pounds. I'm pretty sure @Doubletrouble would know.

 

Please do not just use a chisel and hammer to tighten the nut. It will fail again. Do not weld the nut either this will weaken the mainshaft.

Edited Wednesday at 11:27 PM by Mopar1973Man
Updated info

[Doubletrouble]

@Mopar1973Man It looks like he has the updated main shaft already.

 I purchased several of my transmission parts from Allstate Gear online. The 5th gear nut I used was their "super nut" kit that cane in the master rebuild kit that I bought. I has to replace all 3 shafts, input shaft, counter shaft and the kit came with the full spline updated main shaft as well.

 My trans was trashed. The main shaft bearing in the front took a massive dump and trashed everything. 

 Also, get a big torque wrench! As Mike mentioned, the 5th gear nut needs to be torqued to 300ft/lbs. DO NOT use a chisel and hammer and think it's good. It isnt.

 

 I post some pics of mine below.

 

The carnage 

 

 

More carnage

 

 

 

New input shaft and counter shaft

 

 

 

New counter shaft in place, reused the small reverse idler. Case has been cleaned here also

 

 

 

New main shaft installed, also replaced the tail housing with a cast iron piece. OEM was aluminum and had the mount holes hogged out of round.

 

 

 

Now, the shift ring or collar that I have circled in this pic are important! I installed the ring backwards. If you look closely the ring is flat on one side and has a tapper on the other. The flat side has to go toward the large gear to the right as shown in the pic. Due to installing that ring backwards I do not have the use of 1st gear. I don't need it unless towing and I will pill it and make it right, just haven't yet. 

 Hope all this helps!