who wants to rebuild thier VP44????

[Mopar1973Man]

Electronics have a few thing...

[*]RPM Tone ring

[*]Fuel Solenoid

[*]Timing Solenoid

Once again I'm not 100% sure of this but like several articles about people removing the electronics to repair a blown chip inside by soldiering in a new one. But if change the electronics you had to re-calibrate it for TDC, and the 2 solenoids so the pump behaved properly.

I think mechanically they are all the same inside but once again ont 100% sure...

Man how I wish I could get my hand on a Bosch VP44 rebuild book.

[Prowelder]

Essentially, what you are saying is, rebuilding the mechanical portion of the pump is possible without a lot of special equipment. However, if the electronics are done so is the pump, correct?

Yeah I think the mechanical part might be rebuildable, but the computer has to be calibrated to the pump so if it fails, your dead. That's my thinking at least and since both times when my VP died it was the computer, I think that's the most common problem.

[RPM]

That’s too bad, an affordable option would be nice.

[Mopar1973Man]

Only time your looking down the road of a mechanical failure is typically the P0216 code where the advancement cam is stuck in full retard.

But P0215, P0251, P0252, P0253, P0254, P1688, P1689 are all electronic failures...

But here is the $150,000.00 test bench for calibrating the VP44...

[RPM]

$150,000 would buy a few injection pumps.

[Dave3500]

Some bench!

[Mopar1973Man]

Totally understand why VP44 are at least $1,000.00 a pop. If you look at the money put down to pay for the test bench. Wow! But this where I grey area start for me... I would love like hell to get a copy of the VP44 rebuild manual so I can understand more about the VP44 pump.

[Dave3500]

I hear you!

[edcasey]

Alright guys, sorry I haven’t gotten back to my pump rebuild for a while now, just been busy.....

so I FINALLY got my truck towed over to a buddy’s shop and got the pump pulled the other day, I'll be starting the tear down this weekend so I'll letcha all know what I come up with and post some pictures in the next week or two, and as far as the electronics board is concerned, everyone is absolutely correct, if the board is fried it has to be calibrated on a bench, however! There are two connections that apparently burn out regularly, the board its self doesn't necessarily fry, just two leads coming off of the electronics pack! They overheat, become brittle and over time the solder or the wire itself deteriorates and fails, from what I hear it’s painfully obvious if this is the case as you can look at the wires and see that "oh!! That wire is not connected to anything" I will try to find some pictures of these wires. Again, it never hurts to try and I don't mind being the guinea pig....that’s how this stuff gets figured out

These pictures show the connection failure that is common in the switching circuit of the pcu.

This one shows the circuit repaired

[RPM]

Are these solder connections related to any specific trouble codes? Another question, since you are repairing the current computer board, recalibration is not required right?

I am not in need to repair my VP (Knock on wood) but surely info like this will come in handy at some point.

[Dave3500]

Great questions RPM, I'd like to know that myself!

[edcasey]

Are these solder connections related to any specific trouble codes? Another question, since you are repairing the current computer board, recalibration is not required right?

I am not in need to repair my VP (Knock on wood) but surely info like this will come in handy at some point.

You should see a P1688 if you experience this failure. You don't need to do any reprogramming. If the transistor is bad, new ones aren't expensive even thou they are only available through Bosch (made in Spain). I would recommend having the part replaced by a qualified technician as it is a little tricky.

When my injection pump failed, I attempt to collect as much information as I could about the VP44. I found information in America about the VP44 difficult to find. However, in Europe where VP44's are more common, information is easier to come by. These pumps are used by Audi, Volkswagen, Skoda, Ford, Opel, Vauxhall, Chevrolet, Saab, Nissan, BMW, Volvo, MITSUBISHI, MG, MAN.... For instance, in Europe the transistor in the pictures I posted above is sometimes replaced by a better quality component. Here's a video of the procedure. You may not understand the audio but you get the idea of what the repair involves.

[bronzebeard9]

well......good news and bad regarding my VP. bad news is not only was my pump seized (internal mechanical workings were froze and bound up) but also my electronics pack was about toast......i noticed a little bit of discoloration on the chip board/electronics pack where some little doodad thingamabob burned up, however the soldering connections shown in the picture provided by "edcasey" were fine.....i noticed this AFTER i honed everything out and got the mechanical side to operate again!! so all for nothing as i dont have a test bench laying around to program a new electronics pack:lmao:.....maybe some day. good news from all of this is the pumps can be hit with some light sand paper and honing compound to be refurbished!!

in the mean time, i found an HO pump for $350.00 will it work on my SO engine? would i need to swap injectors and maybe a new ECM.....but that would probly put me right back into the price range of just buying a new VP44.....?

thanks guys!!

[Mopar1973Man]

Nope it won't work.

[bronzebeard9]

well.....actually i found a couple dozen quotes from other guys saying it worked fine without any mods to the SO engine.....for example there is this one

HO VP44 in a SO motor?

"Hey guys all I need to know is if this will work. I have a good used HO pump from an 01 and a 99 that needs a pump. I want to put this pump on the SO motor.

I know the HO pump wont support as much power and the SO is a better pump, so save you breath. Its going in a stock 99 with an auto so i dont want alot of power. It does have an edge, but it stays on a low setting. The truck just needs to run good.

I am about to order some parts, but i wanted to double check before i spend the money. And please only post if you know for sure. Thanks!

__________________

2001 Dodge Sport QCSB, NV5600, TST PowerMax3, AD150 FP, Straight pipe, leveling kit, No Silencer ring

1999 Dodge Sport QCSB Auto, Edge, K&N, 5" exhaust "

a couple people argued that it would work, a few argued that it wouldn't, another guy said he was running an HO pump on an SO engine.....latter he updated further down the thread i was reading that....

"Just an update- I got the pickup running last night. It runs great with the HO VP44. I dont know what everyone is talking about when they say you cant put an HO pump on an SO motor. I didnt do anything with the computer either.

__________________

2001 Dodge Sport QCSB, NV5600, TST PowerMax3, AD150 FP, Straight pipe, leveling kit, No Silencer ring

1999 Dodge Sport QCSB Auto, Edge, K&N, 5" exhaust "

i also found this thread.....

HO/SO vp44 swap

"has anyone dealt with swapping a HO vp44 with a standard output vp44? farmboy is trying to talk me into it but i think he wasn't exactly sure about swapping ecm's. anybody that has any experience with it please let me know what all was involved and if it worked out as well as planned.

reason being: hrvp44 on my truck i've heard won't go to 4k rpm's like the standard output trucks. i should say it probably won't go to 4k as well...i'm sure it will, just might not do it more than once.

__________________

02 2500 qc sb 6sp 4x4, edge comp, fass, scheid hrvp44, HTT 66/14, F1 mach 6's, HTT pulse manifold, alltran clutch, k&n, twin 7" mitres, BOO SPEEDHUT GAUGES! "

another guy on the same thread says that.....

"Do it. I've talked with just about every bosch certified injection pump shop in the country. Almost all of them told me they have done it and do it on a regular basis. Can you guess which ones told me I couldn't do it and that I would have problems? When I asked about the problems I would incounter I got the same response from all of them "it just wont work." Gus knows what he's talking about. If you want to hear from other vendors that will tell you to do it call ollee and bob.

JJ "

another guy, same thread

"How much for the sheid hot rod? I am interested.

I recently switched my SO out for an HO. My VP went out and I slapped on a good HO to get me by until I got a good replacement pump - whatever flavor that may be. "

or this guy.....

"Or someone like me running a HO on an SO. It got me home when I was 2000 miles from home, but I want an SO back on it. What kind of trade are you thinking? "

i found a few more stating they had been running HO pumps with no mods to their trucks for several years!! most of the time it started out as a quick, last ditch repair to solve a blown SO VP44 and they never got arround to trading back to the SO pump. also, a bunch of guys said with the little extra fuel pressure from the ho pump they put 100hp injectors and got closer to 120 out of them.....for the $350.00 the guy wants for the HO pump its worth it to me to try it out....along with some 100 horse injectors:cool: my trucks broke, i figure this is a good time to mess with it.....tinker around a little. i'll letcha know how it works out.....if nothing else i'll get a core charge out of the dang thing!! (Cummins Northwest in Anchorage wants a $1,500.00 core charge for a VP44....theivin SOB's)

[Mopar1973Man]

Hmmm... News to me... There was a deal long ago on Cummins forum about swapping VP44 pumps and the swap usually end in poor running trucks... Well then the best thing I can say is becareful...

[bronzebeard9]

Hmmm... News to me... There was a deal long ago on Cummins forum about swapping VP44 pumps and the swap usually end in poor running trucks... Well then the best thing I can say is becareful...

i did see a few complaints on swapping SO pumps to HO engines but not the other way around, the problem people were having is the SO pump wasnt pushing through their injectors (HO had a higher pop pressure due to more fuel flow, at least thats what i got from it all) and was causing the truck to idle a little rough but everyone said smooth sailing once they opened up the throttle and when they put a fuel box on and jumped the fuel supply or swaped out injectors they said the thing ran like a raped ape, no problems with using the HO IP on an SO Cummins tho.....i guess we will see, plus the little extra fuel flow should be nice.... i know what you are all thinking.....this guy is:cookoo: but if nothing else, its gunna be an interesting experiment and i'll have a HO IP to trade with if everything goes sideways on me:thumb1:

[FlatTwin]

Good to know!

[Heavyd1980]

yes very good info!!!

[bronzebeard9]

well, this post has gone a completely different direction from where i started and i realize that, I'll do a writeup on swapping HO and SO pumps but wanted to wrap this up and let everyone know what happened with the VP pump swap......i got the HO pump installed last night, i would have posted something yesterday but i had a friend come and give me a hand, by the time we were done we were not sober enough to take it for a victory lap around the neighborhood, my wife drove us. the truck is fully functional with the high output pump, that is the ONLY thing i changed, i didn't even change the o ring on the VP44 (the one on the used pump i bought looked to be brand spankin new) we erased all the old error codes once we got the HO pump in (before we got it started) we bled the lines but still had to crank on it for a bit, once it fired up, zero error codes!! it has been a little while since i drove my cummins, however it seems to get on step a little quicker and has a slight gain in HP, we only took it for a short trip but i am interested to see what my mileage will be like if any different at all.....did i mention it was -5 out and i did half the work outside before my friend showed up?!?!? we spent about 2 hours rearranging crap in the garage and another 30minutes getting the thing maneuvered into the garage!!:banghead: