Head Bolts "N" Studs

[JOHNFAK]

Starting this for a discussion as well as for FYI for those interested

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http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-performance-parts-discussion/344262-mighty-diesel-cylender-head-bolts-anything-good-bout-em.html

product here

http://www.mightydiesel.com/store/index.php?cPath=108

Speculation here

Tony from Mighty Diesel is using their Houdini headbolts, (12mm) running about 60PSI boost.. a small S400 running about 575HP on a marine headgasket (.020" over stock thk) and those bolts.. no O-rings. And he's been pulling in the 2.6 class like that for a while. He claimed a customer has run their bolts at 100PSI boost (70PSI regularly) and they hold his HG fine. If I'm not mistaken, the guy running 100PSI boost on these bolts was running a marine HG, no O-rings.

I have my doubts and concerns about them but I have been pushing 60PSI (or a hair more?) so I'm also worried about the stock bolts holding up.

[LiveOak]

If you are running that much boost on your truck B 5.9 with a stock head gasket and the factory bolts, you are VERY lucky so far. My understanding, is that pretty much anytime you are going to excess 38 to 40 psi boost, you need to go to ARP studs or some similar type of clamping. The stock head gasket, I don't think will hold 60+ psi indefinitely. The stock head gasket and bolts will reliably hold upto about 38 psi. That is the max and even pushing it a bit in my opinion. Eventually it will go as well. Usually on a cold morning. Be sure to do a good warm up before getting into any major boost.

[JOHNFAK]

If you are running that much boost on your truck B 5.9 with a stock head gasket and the factory bolts, you are VERY lucky so far. My understanding, is that pretty much anytime you are going to excess 38 to 40 psi boost, you need to go to ARP studs or some similar type of clamping. The stock head gasket, I don't think will hold 60+ psi indefinitely. The stock head gasket and bolts will reliably hold upto about 38 psi. That is the max and even pushing it a bit in my opinion. Eventually it will go as well. Usually on a cold morning. Be sure to do a good warm up before getting into any major boost.

That's the point. These bolts are supposedly able to be torques to 135 .... And these pullers are saying they have guys on stock gasket and with these regularly pushing 50-60 psi ..... The suggestion is they are almost as good as arp 425 ... And for most modded trucks are enough .... Yet only $100 ..., Everything i read so far sounds pretty good for the money ..... Spoken with 2 guys offline who pull sleds using these .....

[LiveOak]

I am not familiar with these bolts. They may well do what is claimed. My personal preference would be for the ARP head studs as they deliver a much more reliable, stronger, and consistent head and gasket clamping force in my opinion. That is not an area where I would want to cut corners or take a chance.

[JOHNFAK]

That is not an area where I would want to cut corners or take a chance.

I hear ya. It's real hard to gauge how far hg will be pushed. Some guys in that thread are running stock with twins and gated at 50 ... 3 years running ... On other hand sure guys have blown much lower ... Arp gets the thumbsup as been around and tested ... But these guys pushing hi psi on these bolts torqued to 135 .... And pulling ....so really kinda tested also ..... Finally, even arp doesn't guarentee no issues. And if you blow hg with them on ?? Then what ?? Redeck the head ... New gasket and new studs ... Maybe 625 ??? Gets real expensive for no guarantee ... Anyway .. Just posted as I think this is interesting given guys that push high psi are running these in the field .... And they seem to be holding ..,,

[Wild and Free]

I see lots of talk about ARP but if you dig and research A1 studs have better corrosion resistance than ARP studs and are the same strenght as ARP and more reasonably priced also. I have seen ARP studs come out that are only a year old and are totally corroded and rusted already. Just an FYI use it as you will.

[JOHNFAK]

I see lots of talk about ARP but if you dig and research A1 studs have better corrosion resistance than ARP studs and are the same strenght as ARP and more reasonably priced also. I have seen ARP studs come out that are only a year old and are totally corroded and rusted already. Just an FYI use it as you will.

Never looked into A1. Will do. W+F ...... spoken with probably 20 guys (some vendors, some pullers , some general guys) and a lot saying not really need to upgrade OEM until over 50 psi consistently ....... and up to that point you can retorque the STOCK bolts to 135 and will hold ....... Then there are these bolts ..... that seem to give you the extra 10psi to around 60 ...... thoughts ?? p.s - also spoke with a couple methanol guys (pullers and vendors) and their thoughts was as long as you keep methanol to a less than 50% mix ...... then cylinder pressures are generally not a concern ........ They said it is possible to "hyroplane" on a cool engine ..... and could lift head ...... but that would take more of a malfunction of the pump/contoller to push that much water/methanol in ..... just what I am hearing from guys and vendors who make this stuff or use it pretty regular. Been looking into it over last 2 weeks.

[Wild and Free]

Never looked into A1. Will do.

W+F ...... spoken with probably 20 guys (some vendors, some pullers , some general guys) and a lot saying not really need to upgrade OEM until over 50 psi consistently ....... and up to that point you can retorque the STOCK bolts to 135 and will hold .......

This is what I have stated previously in other threads.

Then there are these bolts ..... that seem to give you the extra 10psi to around 60 ......

thoughts ??

If thats what you think you will need then it won't hurt anything but the wallet to try.

p.s - also spoke with a couple methanol guys (pullers and vendors) and their thoughts was as long as you keep methanol to a less than 50% mix ...... then cylinder pressures are generally not a concern ........

They said it is possible to "hyroplane" on a cool engine ..... and could lift head ...... but that would take more of a malfunction of the pump/contoller to push that much water/methanol in .....

Sounds about right.

just what I am hearing from guys and vendors who make this stuff or use it pretty regular. Been looking into it over last 2 weeks.

Response in red.

[LiveOak]

I see lots of talk about ARP but if you dig and research A1 studs have better corrosion resistance than ARP studs and are the same strenght as ARP and more reasonably priced also. I have seen ARP studs come out that are only a year old and are totally corroded and rusted already. Just an FYI use it as you will.

I agree! ARP were about the only guys I knew of out there. My point being that a stud with a quality threaded fastener would be the best design and type of clamping system. Thanks for the info.

[dually]

I run arp's No trouble so far.I trust the arp name.However we must keep in mind that the race world that helped build this name tear the engines down every run and if not every race.With this in mind arp has to keep up with the studs in r&d.I dont think they just turn there back because they now have the "gold key to the crapper". As far as running factory bolts to 50 or 100 lbs.Sure why not.Some torque them in 5 lb increments up to 135 lbs.Not me!!To me the stress on that sounds like trouble.I always here of people pushing the limit to get new information or to get around buying the perfect part for the intended job.

[Heavyd1980]

Awesome thread John!:thumb1:

[mr.mindless]

I'm but a minor datatpoint but I retorqued my 110-130k stock bolts on my 24v to 130# and the felt "right." Better than the 12v stockers did going back in for use #2 did to stock 90#+90* I think it was. I'm boosting to 40is now with static timing around 17* (18.5-19 minus popoff pressure retard) and no issues yet pulling heavy. I'm nervous about it, and I get warm with a 3" exhaust and hx35, but so far so good. I plan to retorque to 130 every 20k along with valve lash adjustments and go until something feels stretched. I have spare 12v stock bolts to throw in while I wait for an ARP order in that case :)BTW - I'm a tow rig. 20-24k gross usually.

[JOHNFAK]

Good Stuff !! Data points and guys actually running the stuff we are wondering about are what I/we live for !!

[diesel pap]

hi all. i am tony from mighty diesel. we sell alot of these bolts for the guys on a budget. we have hundreds of trucks out there with these bolts. i have them in my 97 running 60 lb with a s400. i also have them on my 08 6.7. i am getting a head ported polished and oringed for this years pulling season and a new set of bolts will go back in. we also sell arp. if i thought i was going to take my head off any more than once i would put it back with arps. the bolts just like stock are just rec. 1 time. mopar man is setting me up to be a sponsor here. i hope this sheds a little light on the bolts. thanks tony:thumb1:

[JOHNFAK]

hi all. i am tony from mighty diesel. we sell alot of these bolts for the guys on a budget. we have hundreds of trucks out there with these bolts. i have them in my 97 running 60 lb with a s400. i also have them on my 08 6.7. i am getting a head ported polished and oringed for this years pulling season and a new set of bolts will go back in. we also sell arp. if i thought i was going to take my head off any more than once i would put it back with arps. the bolts just like stock are just rec. 1 time. mopar man is setting me up to be a sponsor here. i hope this sheds a little light on the bolts. thanks tony:thumb1:

AWesome to see you here tony - youve always been good to deal with for products and info.

[diesel pap]

thanks bud. the main reason i started selling my bolts is because i got tired of guys hoping up there truck and blowing a head gasket. i deal with a lot of young guys just getting started in life. they dont want to put the money into head studs and my buddy brian who has a shop told me to sell these. i will bet he has them in hundreds of trucks. i was just like everybody else when i bought my puller. these bolts was in it. i told brian we needed to put studs in it. thats when i got his story.

[c farmer]

thanks bud. the main reason i started selling my bolts is because i got tired of guys hoping up there truck and blowing a head gasket. i deal with a lot of young guys just getting started in life. they dont want to put the money into head studs and my buddy brian who has a shop told me to sell these. i will bet he has them in hundreds of trucks. i was just like everybody else when i bought my puller. these bolts was in it. i told brian we needed to put studs in it. thats when i got his story.

I just need to try these, was going with studs but they cost alot of money. Can you link a web site page?

[diesel pap]

just go to my site. mightydiesel.com

[diesel pap]

since i posted last i have sold several hundred sets more.

[JOHNFAK]

How far you taken them on a regular decked block tony ?

New truck I have has o-rings and ARP625 ...... so I dont feel as worried about boost ....... but man at $1k for studs - my old man about fell over