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Torque Converter Lock / Unlock Issues

Mopar1973Man
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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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Ok guys just a quick tidbit of information. Has anyone here corrected the grounding issue on the trucks prone to this issue?

If the diodes are constantly taking a dump it would seem to me that only 2 reasons for this to occur are happening. A: poor construction and B: ground based issue. I myself have alot of altered and added ground wires on the truck. Especially from the PCM to the body ground and the alternator to ground. I will be going through my grounds in the winter months to clean them also and add some sealer to them to prevent further and future corrosion.

Mike has been nailing this problem on the alternator diode trio failure for some time but I have taken additional precautions to help with future issues.

 

PCM, ECM and VP44 grounds are all on the passenger side battery cable. Take a peek you'll see on cable running toward the PCM and cowling. There is no body ground on these units. The only reason for the cheap strap to the PCM is because it mounted into plastic clips the most likely reduce the shielding effect of the case.

 

 

Can't remember if I posted in this thread .... but Mike on a 24v TPS ppump .... same issues .... different cause.

There was a dead spot in the TPS itself ... so basically as you moved the throttle the voltage went up .... but right near lockup there was a dead spot and voltage goes to 0. Lockup in and out.

New TPS .... a good.

 

Typically if the APPS sensor drop out of range for anytime it "should" throw a P0122 code for low volts because it did drop too low. In your case with the p-pump set up I'm not certain what the other system errors will do to impact the reporting. :shrug:

 

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/59-obdii-error-codes-cummins/151-p0122-apps-sensor-signal-voltage-too-low

 

Monitor & Set Conditions

Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS) voltage is monitored when engine is running. DTC may be stored if low voltage is detected on APPS signal circuit or low voltage is detected between Engine Control Module (ECM) and Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

Possible Causes
  • 5-volt Supply At APPS Shorted To ECM Sensor Ground
  • APPS Signal Circuit Shorted To ECM Sensor Ground
  • 5-volt Supply To Ground
  • APPS Signal Circuit Shorted To Ground
  • APPS Signal Circuit Open To ECM
  • PCM (APPS) Short To ECM Sensor Ground
  • ECM (APPS) To PCM (APPS) Circuit Shorted
  • ECM (APPS) To PCM (APPS) Circuit Open
  • Short To ECM Sensor Ground
  • Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS)
  • Engine Control Module
  • Powertrain Control Module
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Vais01

Vais01

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Posted (edited)

<p>

PCM, ECM and VP44 grounds are all on the passenger side battery cable. Take a peek you'll see on cable running toward the PCM and cowling. There is no body ground on these units. The only reason for the cheap strap to the PCM is because it mounted into plastic clips the most likely reduce the shielding effect of the case.

Typically if the APPS sensor drop out of range for anytime it "should" throw a P0122 code for low volts because it did drop too low. In your case with the p-pump set up I'm not certain what the other system errors will do to impact the reporting. :shrug:

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/59-obdii-error-codes-cummins/151-p0122-apps-sensor-signal-voltage-too-low

Monitor & Set Conditions

Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS) voltage is monitored when engine is running. DTC may be stored if low voltage is detected on APPS signal circuit or low voltage is detected between Engine Control Module (ECM) and Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Possible Causes

  • 5-volt Supply At APPS Shorted To ECM Sensor Ground
  • APPS Signal Circuit Shorted To ECM Sensor Ground
  • 5-volt Supply To Ground
  • APPS Signal Circuit Shorted To Ground
  • APPS Signal Circuit Open To ECM
  • PCM (APPS) Short To ECM Sensor Ground
  • ECM (APPS) To PCM (APPS) Circuit Shorted
  • ECM (APPS) To PCM (APPS) Circuit Open
  • Short To ECM Sensor Ground
  • Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS)
  • Engine Control Module
  • Powertrain Control Module
Correct the PCM has a wire heading to the battery but on my truck it is within the wiring loom heading to the drivers side.

My battery terminals both have 3 ground leads. One to the body, one to the engine block, one into the wiring loom going heading towards the drivers side (probably to the ECM) and one to the frame. There are a total of 6 ground wires from both batteries.

The PCM needs to have a very good ground. I do not remember what alterations were done on the transmission ground wiring but I do know something was changed to prevent shift hunting.

Edited by Vais01
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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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Pretty simple just keep your cables clean and in good order. Remember I might own a 2002 Dodge diesel manual but the 1996 is automatic no issues with hunting at all. No extra grounds added to that truck no wiring mods either. It 19 years old and still working fine. Still has the factory 46RE transmission too.

 

14092ev.jpg

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burnt_servo

burnt_servo

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hello guys .......  working on a 2001.5 dodge diesel 4x4 auto . been driving since 2010 ......

 

anyways while chasing drive line vibration , I ended up  chasing a rabbit down a hole .

 

short version , my multimeter on dc reads 13.8vdc ( reverse the wires and it reads -13.8vdc) , then switch it to ac and it reads around 28 to 30 vac , switch the wires and it reads 0000 .

 

so I am assuming I have a leaky diode .

 

now has anyone thought to add a external rectifier bridge in addiction to what is inside to alternator ?

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Bryan

Bryan

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I have 2001 2wd Auto as my daily work truck.  I am starting to have the lock/unlock issue too.  I did the voltage test, got 14.2-3 VDC and anywhere from .5 to 0 VAC.  It would go to zero unless a load cycled then it would go up to .03-05 VAC then settle back to zero once the load cycled off. 

 

I did the cable checks first and everything was 0 or .01 VDC drop which is fine.

 

I am assuming that since this probnlem is intermittent that I may be catching the failure at it's starting point.  Since it is intermitten, I am not sure removing the fuse and test driving it will tell me anything since it is not constnatly happening. 

 

I have a new alternator on the way.

 

EDIT:  this only occurs occaisionally when at steady state 40-45 mph which is about 1300 rpm in overdive and a slight load occurs such as a little bit if a grade increase.  As soon as you step on it, it goes away.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited by Bryan
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jarvis

jarvis

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so couple weeks ago, i pulled the wrong fuse.  reinstalled it.  now the hunting has gone away....in OD.

now i get TC hunting in 3rd....and i believe down shifting to 2nd.  im noticing the downshift tends to happen when going over bumps....as little lane reflectors.

i still have the knocking sound.  running the edge comp box OFF.  made no difference in sound, just performance.  i usually have it on 1...2 if im feeling frisky.  i dont feel confident enough to go higher or even rev it high.  vary rare i go over 2k rpm.

i like the truck...just gotta chase the goblins around some more.

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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so couple weeks ago, i pulled the wrong fuse.  reinstalled it.  now the hunting has gone away....in OD.

now i get TC hunting in 3rd....and i believe down shifting to 2nd.  im noticing the downshift tends to happen when going over bumps....as little lane reflectors.

i still have the knocking sound.  running the edge comp box OFF.  made no difference in sound, just performance.  i usually have it on 1...2 if im feeling frisky.  i dont feel confident enough to go higher or even rev it high.  vary rare i go over 2k rpm.

i like the truck...just gotta chase the goblins around some more.

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jarvis

jarvis

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Ahh... Come on you got to sample the 5x5 once some day. :whistle:

 

Seriously though... :smart:

 

Something to be aware of is that you got to get into the power once in awhile for couple of reasons. First you need to be able to exercise the wastegate on the turbo once in awhile or it will rust shut. Very common on trucks where people are afraid to use the power once in awhile. Also it good to get the pyrometer up to1,100 to 1,200*F and hold it for few miles to cook off all the carbon in the cylinders, pistons and injectors. So even if you leave the level low you need to work the truck once in while to exercise different system and rid the carbon build up.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Bryan

Bryan

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Posted

I have 2001 2wd Auto as my daily work truck.  I am starting to have the lock/unlock issue too.  I did the voltage test, got 14.2-3 VDC and anywhere from .5 to 0 VAC.  It would go to zero unless a load cycled then it would go up to .03-05 VAC then settle back to zero once the load cycled off. 

 

I did the cable checks first and everything was 0 or .01 VDC drop which is fine.

 

I am assuming that since this probnlem is intermittent that I may be catching the failure at it's starting point.  Since it is intermitten, I am not sure removing the fuse and test driving it will tell me anything since it is not constnatly happening. 

 

I have a new alternator on the way.

 

EDIT:  this only occurs occaisionally when at steady state 40-45 mph which is about 1300 rpm in overdive and a slight load occurs such as a little bit if a grade increase.  As soon as you step on it, it goes away.

 

Any thoughts?

Got my new alternator today.  Took a Bosch off and the replacement was a Denso.  After replacing the alternator, the test result was 0.00 to 0.015 VAC.

Another way of testing for the problem. Unhook both BATT wire and field. Make sure to pull the Alternator fuse to make sure of no shorts occur. Now go for a test drive. I bet money the lock / unlock goes away.

I will road test tomorrow.  I am pretty sure that solved the problem.  I did check the alternator brushes for the field and they were pretty well worn along with a lot of scoring and grooving on the slip rings.   Not sure if they contributed, but I am sure that didn't help anything either.

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