24 VALVE IN A 96? How big of a deal is it?

[MRSNAFU]

Hello all, so here's the deal. I'm building my dream truck out of basically two trucks. What I will have left will be a 96 3500 roller and a 98.5 24 valve with a 47RE behind it. Does anyone know what kind of wiring problems I will have, to make it run and shift? I do have the 98.5 computer. Is the main harness at least close to the same or, will I have to make a copy of the 98.5 harness? I do have it but I plan on using it in the 98.5 truck, which I plan to keep.The 96 started out life with an NV4500.

[Mopar1973Man]

Biggest problem is the wiring. If you capable of swapping all the 24V wiring into the 12V body your set. There is a handful of guys that do custom swaps like this.

[rancherman]

The wiring (engine run harness), pcm, (the one that is for the automatic) will need to stay with the engine/trans combo. Don't forget the trans need life blood too! Then, I am not sure if the gauges will work. Are Rams OBDI or II in '96? Before I decided on a mechanical 5.9 transplanted into my '94, I looked at various combos.. ie; the 24 valve originally was going to be my first pick. After looking at what it was going to take because I had no donor truck to steal from... coming up with the proper wiring, then the pcm, then the gauges... (mine is obd I )Sure, I could of built a simple 'engine run harness' to operate the 24 valve... and then go back and use piggyback sensors to fire the trucks pcm. I was going to run either an Allison or go gearbox. You are facing automatic trans management too. I'd say take everything from the donor truck, and get that going first. What are you planning on putting back in the donor truck?

[Mopar1973Man]

Are Rams OBDI or II in '96?

1996 is OBDII...

I am not sure if the gauges will work

Gauges in a 1996 body are not CCD netorked but direct wired.

[CSM]

Could you take the cab/motor/trans/etc from the 98.5 and swap onto the 3500 frame?

[MRSNAFU]

1996 is OBDII... Gauges in a 1996 body are not CCD netorked but direct wired.

What do you mean CCD? The general story here is, I have the two trucks, the one I started with is a 96 3500 EC 4X4 5 speed with a 10 ft flat bed. I traded the NV4500 for a 47RH and all the fixin's. The one I plan to build for me is a 98.5 QCSB 4X4 that I bought wrecked. The guy I got it from slid sideways off the side of the road into a tree. This pushed the drivers side A pillar in all the way to the frame and also bent the left lower control arm (or whatever you call it). The frame is not bent, I measured it every which way I could. It has a 24 Valve (with a 53 block) and a 47RE. I want this truck as reliable as possible and I prefer it to be as mechanical as possible (Cummins with a P-Pump) to but I still want an auto trans.(47RH) I drive in too much heavy traffic to enjoy a clutch with a bad knee. My Plan for the dually is to put it together with the left overs and sell it (if I can get 5K for it I'll have my truck free) or trade it for an off road toy like maybe a Jeep. I don't want to sacrifice anything from the 98 to get the 96 running. I am good at wiring but don't want do more work than I need to. I am not sure what the 96 would have even had a PCM for? I also don't know what it would take to make the shift? I planned on swapping the computers anyway but the gauges on both trucks worries me. I hadn't thought of that.

[Mopar1973Man]

On the 98.5 to 2002 Dodge's the computers are networked together by the CCD network wiring. All information is trade back and forth over the 2 wire network.

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/34-engine-system/81-ccd-data-bus

But now as for the older 1994 to 1998 Dodge's the instrument cluster is directly wired to each sensor. So the temp gauge has a wire going to the temp sensor, oil pressure and so forth. The network reduce the wire overhead and placed all the information on 2 wires.

[vineyardmh]

What do you mean CCD? ................. The one I plan to build for me is a 98.5 QCSB 4X4 that I bought wrecked. The guy I got it from slid sideways off the side of the road into a tree. This pushed the drivers side A pillar in all the way to the frame and also bent the left lower control arm (or whatever you call it). The frame is not bent, I measured it every which way I could. It has a 24 Valve (with a 53 block) and a 47RE. I want this truck as reliable as possible and I prefer it to be as mechanical as possible (Cummins with a P-Pump) to but I still want an auto trans.(47RH) I drive in too much heavy traffic to enjoy a clutch with a bad knee. My Plan for the dually is to put it together with the left overs and sell it (if I can get 5K for it I'll have my truck free) or trade it for an off road toy like maybe a Jeep. I don't want to sacrifice anything from the 98 to get the 96 running. I am good at wiring but don't want do more work than I need to. I am not sure what the 96 would have even had a PCM for? I also don't know what it would take to make the shift? I planned on swapping the computers anyway but the gauges on both trucks worries me. I hadn't thought of that.

Are you sure it is even worth the effort if you have a 53 Block?? If you like the P-Pump - why try to use a suspect 24 valve block? Is there something wrong with your present 12V block? Maybe too much effort for limited benefits. (And if/when you want to sell the P-pumped 24 Valve Engine with a "53" on the side, many informed potential purchasers will give it a wide berth unless you really discount the price on it!!)

[rancherman]

Need a solid replacement cab?

[MRSNAFU]

Thanks mopar1973man. So if I understand whats happening here correctly, I should be able to just swap all sensors,sending units and computers and I should be in good shape on both trucks. Do you know if the pin outs are the same on the computers from 96 to 98.5? I sure don't want to smoke one. I hope they are then all I should have to do would be add the wires to the sensors on the 24 Valve and for the 47RE in the 96. Right?

Are you sure it is even worth the effort if you have a 53 Block?? If you like the P-Pump - why try to use a suspect 24 valve block? Is there something wrong with your present 12V block? Maybe too much effort for limited benefits. (And if/when you want to sell the P-pumped 24 Valve Engine with a "53" on the side, many informed potential purchasers will give it a wide berth unless you really discount the price on it!!)

No vineyardmh62598, I think you missunderstood the plan. I am going to use the 12 valve and the 47RH in the truck I plan to keep. That truck is the 98.5 QCSB 4X4 2500. I really don't need this heavy duty of a truck very often, the heaviest thing I usually haul is a 230 pound dirt bike and I prefer short beds. Lol The 24 valve (with the 53 block) and the 47RE will be in the 96 ECLB 3500 4X4 with a 10 ft flat bed and a Tommy gate. No I'm not sure it will be worth the work but I hope to sell it when I'm done to re-coupe some of the money I have in this project. I have had a 53 block before and had ZERO problems with the truck. I did some work on a friends truck with a problem VP and I just don't want to deal with that again. If I do build the 96 back up (which I probably will) I want to do it right. I don't want to make it a piece of junk for the next guy I just want to recover some cash. At this point I have 5 grand in both trucks. I figure I need about 1K or a little bit more for tires. (I plan to get BFG All Terrains 315/75r16 and I already have the rims I want.) Then I figure about another grand for redoing the interior and other misc things like a 2000 sport grille with a bumper I plan to fab myself. If I can make this a good running truck and get close to the 5K I will be happy. I know many people are afraid of the 53 block but a good running rust free Cummins powered truck should be worth at least close to 5K shouldn't it? If not maybe it will get stuffed into an old rat rod or rock crawler. Lol Thanks rancherman, I am good on the cab I live in Arizona so everything I am working with is completely rust free and I already had the cab that will end up on the 98.5 because the original plan was to change the cab on the 96 to get the back doors. The 98.5 was just a great deal I lucked into.

[flagmanruss]

I wonder if it's worth the work to assemble the parts truck... might do as well or better parting it out. Certainly in terms of man hours!

[MRSNAFU]

I wonder if it's worth the work to assemble the parts truck... might do as well or better parting it out. Certainly in terms of man hours!

Yeah I am not sure either but, it seems like everyone is afraid of the 53 block so it's seems to be hard to sell. I figure IN the truck maybe whoever buys it won't be aware of their reputation. I know that sounds like I'm trying to pull a fast one on someone but, it's NOT CRACKED and even though they have a reputation the vast majority of them are JUST FINE! After sleeping on it I THINK I will need to get another 98.5 PCM. I need one in the 98.5 to run the gauges even though it will be a 12 valve. I will also need a 98.5 PCM in the 96 truck to make the 47RE trans shift even if I pull the 3 wire trick I read about to run a VP44. I think I'm right??? If so that may have made my decision for me. I am not willing to put too much money out to make the 96 truck come to life.

[ISX]

There is a guy on the site named cajflynn and he rolled over a million miles recently on his 53 block hot shotter.. I think the 53 block issue is because of hot RODDERS. Obviously it seems to be weaker but I am not sure it's an issue if you don't beat the crap out of it. There are a lot of facts floating around the internet that stem from things that break even though those things are running 5000RPM and they have 2 injection pumps and might as well have drilled the injector out... I'm not saying the 53 block is that way but cajflynn pulls boats every day for a million miles now and his block is fine because he doesn't hot rod it.

[MRSNAFU]

Yeah I'm not THAT afraid of the 53 block. For me it's more that I WANT the P-Pump and if the 12 valve I have is probably stronger any way why not use it too. I know the VP really isn't that bad either but it's just not what I want. I like the fact that I can tinker with the pump and directly affect power and fuel economy. With the VP I could just buy a box and plug it in and get the same result with the push of a button but.... what fun is that. :lol:It for me is the same with the 47RH versus the 47RE. I just want less computer making decisions for me. I won't get rid of the ABS because I have seen first hand how much safer it can be. I want to be able to play but safety is safety! ABS WORKS.

[MnTom]

From what I have read you will need the ECM, PCM, wiring harness (under the hood), and the in cab harness with the dash from the donor truck. That way you would have all the gauges functioning without having to butcher any harness. Otherwise, you always could P pump the 24v!Tom