Upgrade my turbo?

[hex0rz]

I've got 75hp sticks and the edge comp. 5x5 gives me 120 horsies. That puts up there in the horse range, but my turbo is not going to use that much to make all that power. I would like to better match this with a turbo but have no idea which one would be right for me? I would like to shy away from having to do head studs, etc.I'm also hoping it will raise my mpg's back up as well? I do plan on an exhaust brake and I dunno if a 4" exhaust would be worth doing either?

[98whitelightnin]

If your wanting to do a brake, why not get a 351ve from a 6.7 with a brake. You would want the Fleece controller also. Check out some YouTube videos about it, several 1st and 2nd gens have done the swap.

[Mopar1973Man]

Be aware the Jacobs Brake will keep you trapped at a HX35W turbo. So this is one of my many reasons why I'm not going any bigger fuel wise. With my combo of +50HP and Edge Comp I still have good MPG's and no EGT problems with the 3" stock pipe.

[Wild and Free]

Where you are at I would not do anything, I know tons of guys that have been running stock turbo and edge with 150 sticks for many years with no issues, just don't get stupid.I have proven to many that one can compete and run hard with no studs. My 02 was at 560 hp for many years with edge comp hot II silver 62 and 155 sticks and the waste gate set at 42 psi, hooked to sleds and drag raced and many dyno runs and absolutely no issues when I sold it with 150K miles on a virgin engine.I just ran a torque wrench over the factory head bolts when I installed the 150 sticks at 75-80K miles and let er buck. It still had the factory head gasket in it yet. As long as you stay under 45 lbs boost you are perfectly fine.The one mod that would be best for you with your setup is going from 3.55 to 4.10 gears, it would make your rig awesome while towing that train car of a home around in the western grades. Too many folks fall into the trap of wanting to mod the engine to make up for the wrong gearing for their use "This is the category I place you at at this time".

[Texas CTD]

Just remember, cylinder pressure blows head gaskets, not boost. :thumbup2:The way I look at it, you want to match the turbo to your injectors, and if you have a programmer, fine, you just gotta turn it down when towing. (or just keep an eye on EGT's, and leave the programmer wherever you want it)Since you have 75 HP sticks, a Super B would be the turbo to upgrade to. Just make sure you know you want to keep using those injectors before you go spending ~$1,000 on a turbo.

[Mopar1973Man]

The one mod that would be best for you with your setup is going from 3.55 to 4.10 gears, it would make your rig awesome while towing that train car of a home around in the western grades. Too many folks fall into the trap of wanting to mod the engine to make up for the wrong gearing for their use "This is the category I place you at at this time".

Like I'll admit I just done a camping trip up north with my RV. Climbed several 7% grades (Whitebird, ID., Lewiston, ID., Deary, ID., etc.) Did it all with the RV loaded with everything including water. I will admit I could of done 4th gear on most of the grades but the amount of heat that was creating was more than my liking. Remember our temperature up here have been in the range of 95-105*F. So I would back down to 3rd Gear @ 35 MPH and walk over the grades without a single issue (195*F coolant 950-1,000 EGT's). All I got is the +50HP injectors, Edge Comp (5x3), HX35W Turbo, Straight pipe 3", and BHAF. I don't see a reason for upgrading your turbo like Wild & Free mentions there is a lot that can be done with a stock turbo. I treat my truck like a 80K pound semi. "Slow and Low that is the tempo" is what I tell myself and I always get to my destination. I follow along with all the semi-truck traffic.

[hex0rz]

If your wanting to do a brake, why not get a 351ve from a 6.7 with a brake. You would want the Fleece controller also. Check out some YouTube videos about it, several 1st and 2nd gens have done the swap.

So I just talked to a guy at a performance place. He said the VGT's are pretty problematic because of the vanes. It also can become pretty spendy after making the whole setup work. He said I would be better off just getting a bolt-in setup instead. Although, it does look like a cool setup! I'm really trying to increase power, pickup some fuel mileage and bring the EGT's down at the same time.

Be aware the Jacobs Brake will keep you trapped at a HX35W turbo. So this is one of my many reasons why I'm not going any bigger fuel wise. With my combo of +50HP and Edge Comp I still have good MPG's and no EGT problems with the 3" stock pipe.

I do not have an OEM brake, so I won't be worried about that. I've still got my eyes set on the Pacbrake system. Good thing about the pacbrake is that I can go to a 4" exhaust with it.

Where you are at I would not do anything, I know tons of guys that have been running stock turbo and edge with 150 sticks for many years with no issues, just don't get stupid. I have proven to many that one can compete and run hard with no studs. My 02 was at 560 hp for many years with edge comp hot II silver 62 and 155 sticks and the waste gate set at 42 psi, hooked to sleds and drag raced and many dyno runs and absolutely no issues when I sold it with 150K miles on a virgin engine. I just ran a torque wrench over the factory head bolts when I installed the 150 sticks at 75-80K miles and let er buck. It still had the factory head gasket in it yet. As long as you stay under 45 lbs boost you are perfectly fine. The one mod that would be best for you with your setup is going from 3.55 to 4.10 gears, it would make your rig awesome while towing that train car of a home around in the western grades. Too many folks fall into the trap of wanting to mod the engine to make up for the wrong gearing for their use "This is the category I place you at at this time".

I was hoping to ante up my boost pressures. I just keep remembering that for every pound of boost is equatable to 10hp. If I'm running a stock turbo and can only manage to lite the stock up and get it to max boost and then it gates-off, I'm only making as much as the turbo will let me. Cause technically I should be able to make 41-43 psi with my injectors and comp. I'm pretty ignorant of this side of the world, so I will say I can definitely be wrong in my thinking... I would agree with you about the gearing ratio. At first I was trying to think how I could make that work. But I guess there is not a while lot involved in switching gear ratios. Just get a ring and pinion and switch them out and your good to go! Now, with that being said though. If I go to 4.10's how much would my fuel mileage drop by for that though? I only suspect I will be pulling this trailer half a dozen times a year or so...

Just remember, cylinder pressure blows head gaskets, not boost. The way I look at it, you want to match the turbo to your injectors, and if you have a programmer, fine, you just gotta turn it down when towing. (or just keep an eye on EGT's, and leave the programmer wherever you want it) Since you have 75 HP sticks, a Super B would be the turbo to upgrade to. Just make sure you know you want to keep using those injectors before you go spending ~$1,000 on a turbo.

Isn't that relative? I do not want to go any higher than I need that would end up requiring me to have to get studs and further transmission upgrades, etc. Where it becomes cost prohibitive for me to keep going. I do not want to use it for drag racing, sled pulling, etc. Just a street truck that can pull my house! Guy at the performance place recommend a super B special if I was going to do anything and take a step up... The other thing to keep in mind is I can only have my edge comp on setting 1. So with that setting and the sticks, I suppose that would be where I would want to match my turbo.

Like I'll admit I just done a camping trip up north with my RV. Climbed several 7% grades (Whitebird, ID., Lewiston, ID., Deary, ID., etc.) Did it all with the RV loaded with everything including water. I will admit I could of done 4th gear on most of the grades but the amount of heat that was creating was more than my liking. Remember our temperature up here have been in the range of 95-105*F. So I would back down to 3rd Gear @ 35 MPH and walk over the grades without a single issue (195*F coolant 950-1,000 EGT's). All I got is the +50HP injectors, Edge Comp (5x3), HX35W Turbo, Straight pipe 3", and BHAF. I don't see a reason for upgrading your turbo like Wild & Free mentions there is a lot that can be done with a stock turbo. I treat my truck like a 80K pound semi. "Slow and Low that is the tempo" is what I tell myself and I always get to my destination. I follow along with all the semi-truck traffic.

Yea, maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and go to a manual tranny instead... What about going to a 4" exhauts? I know it does not necessarily help increase power, but I assume it would help lower drive pressures and EGT's? I had a section of exhaust that was 4" in the system and I got it removed because it was corroding on me or something. After I it replaced back down to match the rest of the 3" system, I noticed the EGT's were higher running around. So I asked the guy about a propane injection setup and he says they can get them but also askd me why I wanted it. Told him for fuel mileage. Said he recommended the water/meth injection instead. Their description said a 1-2 mile increase but it also helps add power and lower egt's. Would the water/meth injection help me any or be of any benefit with where I sit now? I know, kinda off-topic.....

[Texas CTD]

Isn't that relative? I do not want to go any higher than I need that would end up requiring me to have to get studs and further transmission upgrades, etc. Where it becomes cost prohibitive for me to keep going. I do not want to use it for drag racing, sled pulling, etc. Just a street truck that can pull my house! Guy at the performance place recommend a super B special if I was going to do anything and take a step up... The other thing to keep in mind is I can only have my edge comp on setting 1. So with that setting and the sticks, I suppose that would be where I would want to match my turbo.

Just thought I'd throw that in there... A lot of people will start asking how much boost they can run on stock head bolts. I know you didn't say that, but again, I just thought I'd throw that in there. Which performance place is this? He probably meant a Super B, not a Super B Special. The B is a 57/65/14 I believe, and the Special is a 64/71/14. You'll need 7x.011 sticks to properly spool a Special

[Mopar1973Man]

What about going to a 4" exhauts? I know it does not necessarily help increase power, but I assume it would help lower drive pressures and EGT's? I had a section of exhaust that was 4" in the system and I got it removed because it was corroding on me or something. After I it replaced back down to match the rest of the 3" system, I noticed the EGT's were higher running around.

There is a very little change going to 4" exhaust the actually restriction is from the turbo not so much the pipe. IMHO...

[diesel4life]

I agree with Ryan, a vgt would be a good choice and one I've been considering. Much more efficient than the HX35 because the turbo keeps you right in the sweet spot so your efficient down low yet you can pour the fuel to it and it stays right with you. The problems with the vanes I believe pertains to the early days of the 6.7s where they were sooting the turbos exessively with all the EGR cycles. But with all the changes in tuning that has become alot less of a problem and on a 24v with no EGR should be no problem. If your patient you can look around locally and find a good used 351 with a 6.7 manifold for 300 to 400 bucks and approximately another 400 for a stand alone controller. A good turbo and an exhaust brake for in the neighborhood of 800 bucks, hard to beat that

[hex0rz]

Just thought I'd throw that in there... A lot of people will start asking how much boost they can run on stock head bolts. I know you didn't say that, but again, I just thought I'd throw that in there. Which performance place is this? He probably meant a Super B, not a Super B Special. The B is a 57/65/14 I believe, and the Special is a 64/71/14. You'll need 7x.011 sticks to properly spool a Special

When I said, "Isn't that relative?" I meant isn't boost the same as cylinder pressure? Its a business back near home in Spokane Valley, Wa. I got my trans. temp. gauge from them. No, he said Special not single. I dunno what size my 75hp sticks are..

There is a very little change going to 4" exhaust the actually restriction is from the turbo not so much the pipe. IMHO...

When should I go to a 4"? If ever at all?

I agree with Ryan, a vgt would be a good choice and one I've been considering. Much more efficient than the HX35 because the turbo keeps you right in the sweet spot so your efficient down low yet you can pour the fuel to it and it stays right with you. The problems with the vanes I believe pertains to the early days of the 6.7s where they were sooting the turbos exessively with all the EGR cycles. But with all the changes in tuning that has become alot less of a problem and on a 24v with no EGR should be no problem. If your patient you can look around locally and find a good used 351 with a 6.7 manifold for 300 to 400 bucks and approximately another 400 for a stand alone controller. A good turbo and an exhaust brake for in the neighborhood of 800 bucks, hard to beat that

I dunno where I could ever begin to find a turbo? I've been looking into it a little and I'm unsure of all of whats involved? Sounds like there is a good bit of fab work for a person with a 4x4 truck. How is the retarding power of the turbo to work as an exhaust brake? I would still need a TC controller to make it work on my auto, right?

[diesel4life]

You can find them on Craigslist, CF, places like that. The 6.7 guys ditch them once they start modding much above 450 horsepower (give or take) so if your patient you can pick them up for a decent price. You have to get a 6.7 manifold or an adapter but I hear theres some fab work involved and the air box would need relocated with an adapter, so the manifold would be the best bet. All bolt on parts, you would need a 4" down pipe coming off the back of the turbo. The stand alone controller is what controls the variable turbo and the exhaust brake. Not sure if you've ever ridden in a 6.7 truck but their exhaust brakes are outstanding, probably better than most if not all aftermarket exhaust brakes, except maybe the load leash which closes the exhaust valves. If you do some digging theres some pretty good writeups out there on the web on the 2nd gen trucks with the vgt set up.And yes, you would still need a lock up switch for the trans, and probably a billet input for heavy exhaust braking. You can run with the turbo only and not activate the exhaust brake if your not comfortable with the strain it will put on your trans, and upgrade the input at a later date, which is what I plan on doing if I can come across a sweet enough of a deal on a turbo/manifold.

[Texas CTD]

When I said, "Isn't that relative?" I meant isn't boost the same as cylinder pressure? Its a business back near home in Spokane Valley, Wa. I got my trans. temp. gauge from them. No, he said Special not single. I dunno what size my 75hp sticks are..

Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm no expert, so I couldn't really explain it, so either somebody else will, or wait til I can dig up some info. Timing and duration is what raises cylinder pressure. Your 75 HP sticks are roughly a 7x.00825. Refer to this thread for rough estimates on injector size/horsepower. http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/7496-Injector-Sizes-And-Turbo-Discussion

[Mopar1973Man]

When should I go to a 4"? If ever at all?

Racing. Would be a reason for 4" to me.

[fire176969]

From experience the 4" exhaust won't help lower your EGT's. Raising the boost pressure doesn't seem to help either. I'm stuck with my HY35 until money isn't so tight and I have seen my boost pressure hit and sit at 40 psi and the EGT gauge peg at 1500.This is with a turbo back 4" exhaust system.

[CSM]

Racing. Would be a reason for 4" to me.

That or sound... I like the sound of the 5" with resonator. It has a distinct Ruummp when I roll into it off the line. Though, come to think of it, it probably sounds pretty droning in the other lanes. Yes, I know its overkill... but I got a deal on it. I decided to let the inner redneck have a day in the sun.

[Mopar1973Man]

From experience the 4" exhaust won't help lower your EGT's. Raising the boost pressure doesn't seem to help either. I'm stuck with my HY35 until money isn't so tight and I have seen my boost pressure hit and sit at 40 psi and the EGT gauge peg at 1500.This is with a turbo back 4" exhaust system.

your problem is the 9cm2 turbo exhaust housing creating serious choke point and back pressure why your EGT's are so high.

[fire176969]

your problem is the 9cm2 turbo exhaust housing creating serious choke point and back pressure why your EGT's are so high.

I almost don't want to change from the hy, kinda has the jet engine sound when you hit over 20 psi from the exhaust rushing through the housing and wide open waste gate. Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[hex0rz]

You can find them on Craigslist, CF, places like that. The 6.7 guys ditch them once they start modding much above 450 horsepower (give or take) so if your patient you can pick them up for a decent price. You have to get a 6.7 manifold or an adapter but I hear theres some fab work involved and the air box would need relocated with an adapter, so the manifold would be the best bet. All bolt on parts, you would need a 4" down pipe coming off the back of the turbo. The stand alone controller is what controls the variable turbo and the exhaust brake. Not sure if you've ever ridden in a 6.7 truck but their exhaust brakes are outstanding, probably better than most if not all aftermarket exhaust brakes, except maybe the load leash which closes the exhaust valves. If you do some digging theres some pretty good writeups out there on the web on the 2nd gen trucks with the vgt set up. And yes, you would still need a lock up switch for the trans, and probably a billet input for heavy exhaust braking. You can run with the turbo only and not activate the exhaust brake if your not comfortable with the strain it will put on your trans, and upgrade the input at a later date, which is what I plan on doing if I can come across a sweet enough of a deal on a turbo/manifold.

What keyword should I be using specifically to search for it appropriately? Does the 6.7 manifold bolt right on? The downpipe does not come with the turbo? If I had a 4" downpipe, it would make it that much easier for a 4" exhaust system, right? Man, ironic that the stock 6.7 turbo is great for us guys, but not good enough for the 6.7 guys. Can I make 40psi of boost with it? I'm starting to lean towards upgrading the flexplate and input shaft. I may even see about some other parts too. I'd also like to get lockup in 1st and 2nd gear. Can't remember if I read 1st gear lockup was bad or not.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm no expert, so I couldn't really explain it, so either somebody else will, or wait til I can dig up some info. Timing and duration is what raises cylinder pressure. Your 75 HP sticks are roughly a 7x.00825. Refer to this thread for rough estimates on injector size/horsepower. http://forum.mopar1973man.com/threads/7496-Injector-Sizes-And-Turbo-Discussion

So its more of a fuel delivery aspect than boost pressure?

From experience the 4" exhaust won't help lower your EGT's. Raising the boost pressure doesn't seem to help either. I'm stuck with my HY35 until money isn't so tight and I have seen my boost pressure hit and sit at 40 psi and the EGT gauge peg at 1500.This is with a turbo back 4" exhaust system.

1500 degress?! I thought that was pretty much instantaneous piston melting craziness?

[diesel4life]

What keyword should I be using specifically to search for it appropriately? Does the 6.7 manifold bolt right on? The downpipe does not come with the turbo? If I had a 4" downpipe, it would make it that much easier for a 4" exhaust system, right? Man, ironic that the stock 6.7 turbo is great for us guys, but not good enough for the 6.7 guys. Can I make 40psi of boost with it? I'm starting to lean towards upgrading the flexplate and input shaft. I may even see about some other parts too. I'd also like to get lockup in 1st and 2nd gear. Can't remember if I read 1st gear lockup was bad or not.

"HE351vgt swap into a 2nd gen", or something similar to that. There is some good write ups on the swaps, if I have some time later I'll dig some up. 6.7 manifold bolts right up, you would need a 6.7 style down pipe as well because the turbo sits lower and closer to the block with the 6.7 manifold. There are a few things you will have to add, like coolant lines, extend the oil lines, and you may have to fab an elbow to mate to the intercooler because I havent seen one out there yet that you can purchase to bolt on. It will require a little work but if your patient and wait for the deals to come around I think it would be a very efficient turbo. You gotta remember that a stock 6.7 engine has about 100 more ponies right out of the gate than our 2nd gens. I've seen some modded 6.7s making some serious power while still utilizing the oem turbo, but they can only handle so much fuel and then your forced to step up again. I'm pretty sure you can get 40-42 psi out of them, a nice little step up from the 30-32 (35 if your really pushing it) out of the HX, plus the variable turbn gives you that bottom end boost right off the bottom.