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rancherman

problems with recent bulk fuel delivery~!

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2 weeks ago, had the fuel man out to fill our on-farm storage diesel with 50% #1 and #2 fuel. Thanks to a nice arctic blast, (lows about -10) most of my tractors are 'dead'. geez, another batch of crap came up the pipeline, ALL my neighbors are pulling their hair out too..I have an inline screen before the lift pump, that is easily taken apart and cleaned... It's actually a sprayer suction screen and has about a pint of capacity. It was totally full of slush, I cleaned it out and put in a jug of '911' I hate using it, but hungry cows take precedence!! Today, fuel won't even flow out of the the bulk tank.. OUT OF A 1 inch pipe plug!!! Fuel guy says the first batch 'out for delivery' has been problematic the past few years, claims the sulfur-removal process is a hydro-wash that actually ADDS microscopic molecules of H2O to the fuel. He claims If we could look into a cross section of the fuel, we would see millions of tiny 'snowflakes' in suspension. I was hoping that by now, the refineries would have this process 'figured out'! (this isn't the first year this has happened) The moles are so homogenized that they never clump together or settle out.. just waiting to be whisked away and caught by the filter!!!!so, I've got 800 gallons of 'crap' to deal with, I might have to just let it sit until spring! ( I really don't want to burn a lot of #1 blended in the 'heat of spring work').. I'll probably try to find a source of 'good' #1, and keep adding to the bulk tank until it starts flowing again

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That explanation sounds a bit bogus to me. If that was the case there should be a lot more fuel related issues in the fall. If there was that much water in the fuel don't you think it would settle out in your tank?

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Good question tom! I need to ask 'higher up' the chain about what's going on, the dude driving the delivery truck may not be a candidate for chemist-of-the-year....another possibility, is batches of fuel are separated by slugs of water as they are pumped up the pipeline. This recent batch may have been compromised/or not allowed to 'settle' before delivery to end user..

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I do not buy his story. I never had bulk diesel tanks but had a 1000 gal high test gas & 3000 gal regular gas (leaded fuels) in ground at the boat marina. We could put a chemical that reacted with water on our tank stick & see the water level in the bottom of the fuel tank. We had a customer with water in his fuel... swore he only bought from us (and not the fuel docks closer to the harbor entrance) We did stick the tanks in front of him... and there was barely enough to react the bottom of the stick. We did eventually find a missing clam shell over his side tank vent so spray "might" have entered. Or he might have got bad fuel elsewhere. I just find it so hard to believe that water would not settle out. I might be tempted to get a pint jar with a screw lid... get it fullof fuel & let it settle over night. I routinely did this... with drained separator contents... before going to work on a balky engine. The screw lid kept all the fumes in, prevented evaporation. If I found water... I'd start a routine of separator service & not waste a lot of time on the motors. If I didn't find water, then I eliminated a lot of wasted effort of filters & went on to other possibilities. In cold weather like you have, I'd put the sample someplace with reasonable safe warmth. I might even take it to the fuel seller to complain! I've had my old JD410 froze up... I covered the front fright over the loader & all with a bunch of canvas & stuck a salamander heater under the transmission blasting away. I did thaw it out enough to run but took a lot of time in the snow. I was afraid of setting fire to the machine but it didn't happen so my clearances turned out to be adequate.

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We are having lots of diesels gelling up out her in western nebraska. Its been getting to 20 below almost every night. The gas stations have no idea what kind of fuel they have. Mine will be sitting for a while because even with 911 (I hate using it too) my truck has zero psi

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Right near +10*F as of tonight and still fuel is flowing in the truck by morning it will be -5*F roughly here. In all the years and nasty winter with temps down to -20*F to -25*F never had a gelling issues yet but I'm extremely picky about where I buy fuel and quiz the fuel station owners about PPD (Pour Point Depressants) and there usage in there fuels.How else do you think I got this picture? :whistle:post-2-138698211838_thumb.jpg

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Russ, I remember way back when..... When I used to run a couple of service stations EVERY SINGLE TIME we got a load of gas we had to stick the tank and we had a paste to put on the stick to check for water. If the paste changed color water was present and we could tell how much water there was.

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Yes, Tom, that's the stuff on the stick... I think it went from green to red or vise versa. Surprisingly we never had a problem with water in our tanks. We were so small we had to get fuel from a middle man... Agway, supplied many farms in our area but it was straight out of the Mobil Terminal in Providence. We were promised that if we ever had enough to measure that Agway would pump it out our tank fill with a long pipe.I wonder if a shield or insulation on the AD would break the wind OR trap engine heat to stop the wind chill?? My initial thought was like a skid plate of plastic from the front to bring engine heat down & break the wind. What about a flexible insulation (like package shipping) in sheets wrapped around the canisters? For a really wacked out idea... flex duct from the radiator to such a flexible insulation container to bring heat down to the filter & pump?

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A very possible answer to your fuel problem is that a #1 fuel will only lower the CFPP by 3 degrees per 10% blend, so in a 50% #1 mix you are only lowering the CFPP by 15 to 20 degrees at the most. So if the base CFPP of the fuel is a +10 degrees and you only lowered your CFPP by 15 degrees that means your fuel would only be good to -5 degrees.

 

 

 

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2 weeks ago, had the fuel man out to fill our on-farm storage diesel with 50% #1 and #2 fuel.Thanks to a nice arctic blast, (lows about -10) most of my tractors are 'dead'.geez, another batch of crap came up the pipeline, ALL my neighbors are pulling their hair out too..I have an inline screen before the lift pump, that is easily taken apart and cleaned... It's actually a sprayer suction screen and has about a pint of capacity. It was totally full of slush, I cleaned it out and put in a jug of '911' I hate using it, but hungry cows take precedence!!Today, fuel won't even flow out of the the bulk tank.. OUT OF A 1 inch pipe plug!!!Fuel guy says the first batch 'out for delivery' has been problematic the past few years, claims the sulfur-removal process is a hydro-wash that actually ADDS microscopic molecules of H2O to the fuel. He claims If we could look into a cross section of the fuel, we would see millions of tiny 'snowflakes' in suspension. I was hoping that by now, the refineries would have this process 'figured out'! (this isn't the first year this has happened) The moles are so homogenized that they never clump together or settle out.. just waiting to be whisked away and caught by the filter!!!!so, I've got 800 gallons of 'crap' to deal with, I might have to just let it sit until spring! ( I really don't want to burn a lot of #1 blended in the 'heat of spring work')..I'll probably try to find a source of 'good' #1, and keep adding to the bulk tank until it starts flowing again

 

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I had a client that had me build an insulated heated building around his diesel tank. Sort of like a small pole building style to keep cost down. We wired it and he put in a small radiant heater in there

Edited by JAG1

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