FASS DDRP: Why not????

[flman]

my airdog didn't come with an inline filter, but i think the water separater acts as a prefilter. i did hook up the factory water sep/filter(so i would have fuel heater).i have 1/2" line from tank to VP44

This in-line filter is between the outlet of the fuel tank, and the inlet of the pump, it has nothing to do with the separator/filter. It just seems like a bad Idea to create a restriction like that before the pump?

[Hood Latch]

This in-line filter is between the outlet of the fuel tank, and the inlet of the pump, it has nothing to do with the separator/filter. It just seems like a bad Idea to create a restriction like that before the pump?

Flman, I am pondering the same question myself; Should I install an in-line filter between tank and new FASS DDRP? Right now, The FASS seems to be meeting my particular needs for my driving habits. But, if I create a restriction that the FASS would have to pull fuel thru on it's way to the filter housing, well, I don't know if it would keep up with what I want to see. Gonna have to think on it.

[guesswho512]

come on guys...how many filters do you need?i have the stock filter/canister, the primary and water separator on the airdog. it is installed exactly to pureflows instructions...and that pump has a lifetime warranty. i buy quality fuel(at the local flying j, they have a monster filter on on each hose in the RV section). i am not trying to be a jerk. i guess my point is there isn't much more to do and most everyone has had (i use this term loosely) decent performance out of stock crap...now i have quality pump and filters:2cents:

[Mopar1973Man]

Vald point... I say that there should be a pre-filter before the lift pump and then the filter after the lift pump... basically a full FASS or Airdog does this... But as for running any pump without a pre-filter is just asking for trouble...

[edcasey]

I believe a good prefilter is very important for pump life. I've been running a prefilter on my Walbro system since I installed it 4 years ago. Many other Walbro users have had them fail within a few months. My own informal survey shows most of them had no prefilter or the wrong type of regulator. Prefiltering could also be a factor in the reliability of AirDog pumps. I currently run a Baldwin B1212 filter before the pump. It's actually a water separator but also filters to 20 microns. Water separators work much better if they're installed before the pump and can remove the water before it is emulsified by the pump. Airdogs also do this. Adding this filter before the pump did nothing to effect my fuel pressure. I you want to know about filtration just read everything written by AH64ID. He put together this chart on fuel filters. http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-tech-articles/150422-3rd-gen-popular-fuel-filter-data.html. If you look on the chart for Airdog filters, you'll see the WS100 water separator that comes with the pump should be changed to a FS19594. The WS100 only filters 50% of free water and 0% of emulsified water. Not much of a water filter. The FS19594 filters 90% of both. Much better but still doesn't meet the Cummings 95% requirement for Common Rail engines. That's why a lot of the 3rd gen guys are running Raptors instead of AirDogs and adding filter bases with better filters or they run a Baldwin PF7977 in the stock filter housing which also meets Cummins' specifications. If you look at the chart, you will see the Baldwin PF7977 is an excellent filter and water separator. Also, if you look at the chart you'll see the best fuel filter for the AirDog is the FS5613 which is a 5 micron Absolute filter. The Absolute rating is the industry standard. It requires 98.7% of a certain size particulate to be filtered out on one pass. The FS5613 only filters out 94% of 2 micron particles so it's not a 2 micron Absolute filter. It's a 2 micron nominal filter. The nominal rating is anything less than 98.7%. Some filters might claim to be 2 micron but only filter 50% of the particles that size. This is the reason the Absolute standard came about, so you are comparing apples to apples when you look at filters. Unfortunately, AirDogs filter threads are the wrong size to accept any of the 2 mic Absolute filters.

Edited January 27, 2010 by edcasey

[guesswho512]

i have seen that spreadsheet before...very good info, but am i to understand i have a ~20 and ~60 GPH filters on a 150 GPH pump?

[edcasey]

I'm not sure what that refers to. Maybe if I shoot him a PM he can tell us.

[flman]

I just ordered the 1/2" fuel line from Vulcan, I am going to use this filter before the pump, I like the piece of mind, that some piece of grit is not going to wipe out my new pump. https://www.vulcanperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ILFF500 I know you guys like the air dog and all, but I was just looking for adequate pressure for my VP44, I am sure the 1/2" line should help with this during the fuel thickening winter temps. Even on a home oil burner, the line size goes up with distance, and lift.

[Hood Latch]

come on guys...how many filters do you need? i have the stock filter/canister, the primary and water separator on the airdog. it is installed exactly to pureflows instructions...and that pump has a lifetime warranty. i buy quality fuel(at the local flying j, they have a monster filter on on each hose in the RV section). i am not trying to be a jerk. i guess my point is there isn't much more to do and most everyone has had (i use this term loosely) decent performance out of stock crap...now i have quality pump and filters:2cents:

Well I'm running the FASS DDRP @ the stock location on the side of the block with nothing between it and the tank. From the DDRP the fuel go's to the stock filter/heater/seperator that has a Baldwin 7977 inside of it. So, after the DDRP, I figure I should be o.k. It's what could be in the fuel before it get's to the DDRP that I am sort of concerned about. I do have the small in-line Fleetgaurd filter that I think I am going to install in the line somewhere before the DDRP. If it should cause to much of a drop in p.s.i., well then, I would have to re-think things at that point.

[flman]

I would be concerned about that, being I dont know what kind of impeller or tolerances the Fass pump has? The OEM pump seems to have big slots in the impeller, that would easily pass a chunk of crud? I would like to see the inside of one of these Fass pumps. Has any one opened one up yet?

[AH64ID]

i have seen that spreadsheet before...very good info, but am i to understand i have a ~20 and ~60 GPH filters on a 150 GPH pump?

That is exactly what that means. You have a pump capable of 150GPH, but filters only rated for 20GPH and 60GPH. The filter will still probably flow 150GPH, but they are not removing their rated water or contaminates at their maximum capability. Edited January 27, 2010 by AH64ID

[LiveOak]

Vald point... I say that there should be a pre-filter before the lift pump and then the filter after the lift pump... basically a full FASS or Airdog does this... But as for running any pump without a pre-filter is just asking for trouble...

Perhaps I am missing the point but there is a very fine mesh fabric filter material that the stock OEM fuel pickup basket draws fuel through. Anything that is small enough to get through the fabic prefilter in my opinion would be of no consequense to the lift pump.

[Mopar1973Man]

Perhaps I am missing the point but there is a very fine mesh fabric filter material that the stock OEM fuel pickup basket draws fuel through. Anything that is small enough to get through the fabic prefilter in my opinion would be of no consequense to the lift pump.

That's if you still got that system hooked up... But I'm not using the stock pickup assembly any longer... But your right the stock pickup assembly does have a screen on it that helps protect the stock lift pump from damage. But the problem with the stock pickup assembly is that the trash remains in the tank to re plug the pickup assembly everytime. Some people have cut out the screen and put in a external filter so when debris is bad they can replace a filter and not have to drop the tank and clean the debris...

[edcasey]

That is exactly what that means. You have a pump capable of 150GPH, but filters only rated for 20GPH and 60GPH. The filter will still probably flow 150GPH, but they are not removing their rated water or contaminates at their maximum capability.

Welcome to the forum and thanks. Edited January 27, 2010 by edcasey

[edcasey]

Perhaps I am missing the point but there is a very fine mesh fabric filter material that the stock OEM fuel pickup basket draws fuel through. Anything that is small enough to get through the fabic prefilter in my opinion would be of no consequense to the lift pump.

LiveOak, before running a f/w separator for a prefilter, I ran the 140 micron in-line screen filter that a lot of people use. Vulcan sells them. http://www.vulcanperformance.com/category-s/152.htm Twice I had my fuel pressure drop to nearly zero under hard acceleration because the prefilter was partially clogged. I always carried an extra so I just pulled over and replace it. I don't know how fine the stock pick-up screen is but it does let contaminants larger than 140 microns pass through. These particulates could be large enough to damage a gerotor pump. Edited January 27, 2010 by edcasey

[LiveOak]

That's if you still got that system hooked up... [ATTACH=CONFIG]521[/ATTACH] But I'm not using the stock pickup assembly any longer... But your right the stock pickup assembly does have a screen on it that helps protect the stock lift pump from damage. But the problem with the stock pickup assembly is that the trash remains in the tank to re plug the pickup assembly everytime. Some people have cut out the screen and put in a external filter so when debris is bad they can replace a filter and not have to drop the tank and clean the debris...

My comments were aimed at the folks using just the OEM or after market lift pumps but still utilizing the OEM fuel pickup basket. The Air Dog and FASS as far as I know are protected by their own filter and inlet screen. I am running an Airtex pump on the wife's truck without a formal prefilter but still using the OEM fuel pickup basket. This setup seems to be working well but I am finding that I use about twice as many of the Balwin fuel filters as I did the Fleetguard. I never realized how much difference 3 microns could make in the amount of contaminants trapped in a filter.

[guesswho512]

That is exactly what that means. You have a pump capable of 150GPH, but filters only rated for 20GPH and 60GPH. The filter will still probably flow 150GPH, but they are not removing their rated water or contaminates at their maximum capability.

ok. thank you for that knowledge. is that manufacture info or validated by testing? it does open my eyes. oh and welcome to this forum.

[LiveOak]

Welcome to the forum and thanks.

Let me add my welcome as well.

[AH64ID]

ok. thank you for that knowledge. is that manufacture info or validated by testing? it does open my eyes. oh and welcome to this forum.

Thanks to everyone for the welcoms. That data is directly from Fleetguard. Which was easy to obtaion, so it makes the lack of flow and f/w separtion make AD and FASS look like they did zero research on the filters they chose.

[Hood Latch]

This is sort of related to this thread; Can someone tell me what the inside diameter is of the stock metal fuel line that runs from the stock filter housing to the inlet of the vp44 ? Thanks .Hood Latch