Injector Failure..............Early Signs

[dorkweed]

What are we likely to see/feel/experience??  Both long term...........slow death.  And short term..........catastrophic failure.

 

As of today, MightyWhitey has 205,612 miles...........and running great and getting get mileage.  Other than the sensor issue in Feb., all is well.   Reading over the years; and much more recently, it seems OEM CR injectors last anywhere from 40,000-400,000 miles. Not a real consensus for sure.

 

Other than the obvious of making oil, white smoke and hard starts........................What are most "likely signs" of eminent  CR injector failure, if any??  Noisier, RP variations from normal, poor mileage, etc.

 

And what's the deal with using '03-'04 injectors in '04.5+ engines???  I've read a bunch on that..................and still am in the dark. I can see how it can work................but it's gotta be spot on.  I just don'tlike that idea yet if'n I need to replace injectors here shortly.

 

 

Where to buy new injectors from would be another question that I have.  New, remans, nozzles, etc.  Can someone explain it al to mel in small words, just to make sure I understand it?? 

 

Thanks......................AH64ID................in advance!!

[mopartechnician]

Knocking noise like a 12 valve under load around 1750 rpms. Poor mileage, only starts with ether (return issue). Another issue is when you hit the throttle in park/neutral, the rpms will hang for a bit. Smoke obviously but is harder to see on 04.5 and newer pickups. These are what i have personally seen. The injector knock usually went along with a vibration at the same rpm. I would open the drivers door to the first detent, rev tote vibration and start killing injectors with the drb/star scan. Would also do the kill test under load and find the knocking one. As far as hard starts. An injector return test will find that. But if it starts on ether, than its injectors. I actually have a 03 sitting infront of my house with that problem

As far as which injectors, either bosch remans ( not reman bosch) or bbi. Those are the only ones I trust. Ive had good luck with Don M rebuilds but they are hard to get. If you are serious, i can hook you up with some bosch remans.

As far as swqpping between different years, I will let ah64id answer that because I am not up to date on it. But from the little I read its gonna be cool to swap them

[AH64ID]

Injector rattle will increase, hard start, more smoke (depends on the status of you cat), rough idle, and decreased mileage can all be a sign of early failure.

 

I haven't heard anything good about any injector with the word reman in it, anywhere.

 

I have 4K miles on my BBi's and they are still impressing me. The easiest thing would be BBi Stage 1 for MY04.5.

 

If that was too much money the BMS 50's, AKA QSB440, would be the next best.

 

The Bosch Marine (BMS) stuff is great, but only comes in the 03-04 spray angle. From what I gather people are having good luck on smaller size injectors swapping to the 03-04 spray angle. It is a wider angle, and apparently creates a better burn in the cylinder with the POS 04.5-07 piston. I haven't ever personally ran them with MY04.5 pistons, but know many have/are.

[Wild and Free]

I may be in the market for a set as well, I have noticed over the last year on my 05 during a cold start it cranks and fires for a second like it is going to start and then either quits instantly or needs to be cranked for 2-3 seconds before firing, seems to be getting progressively worse slowly, But I may try a new set of batteries first as I still have the original factory ones in it yet and it sounds like they are getting weak as it sounds like it doesn't crank quite fast enough which would cause this as well. Other than that no other issues, runs smooth and idles fine and warm starts are no issue pops right up instantly.

 

I am going to bite the bullet and finally order some sort of gauges for it too in the near future but am undecided on what to go with, I really like the dual indicator westach gauges but they don't offer them in the combos I would like to see plus I don't want mismatched set of gauges, I am undecided, and will add a 2 mic secondary filter system to the factory fuel system. 112k on 100% stock fuel system running 7 micron fleet guard and hit and miss 2 stroke.

 

What are the best quality gauges out there now days besides westach? I don't keep up on aftermarket things as much anymore. I doo still like the Edge CTS unit though the most.

[AH64ID]

The ISSPRO EV2's are as good as it gets IMHO.

[volkswagon]

The ISSPRO EV2's are as good as it gets IMHO.

I agree. I love mine.

[Wild and Free]

After my 02 having a cab full of gauges I am leaning more towards a single digital unit. Looking at the ISSPRO they look to be electronic gauges anyhow so a single display unit would be best in this case.

[dorkweed]

My Autometer UltraLites have been very reliable also.

[dorkweed]

Does not Bosch themselves reman injectors John??

 

 

And in all honesty, I'm not seeing any potential problems.  Just started this thread to get a discussion about CR injectors. As I said in my OP.....................it's really, really confusing as to what it what and how and why!!

Edited April 17, 2014 by dorkweed

[mopartechnician]

Yes they are called bosch remans. The last two pickups I did are bosch remans. Got a pickup in my driveway waiting on a set.

[AH64ID]

Even Bosch remans have issues typical of remans, and of the remans they seem to be the best but still the best advice is new only.

[Mopar1973Man]

CR injectors are expensive but still and all I agree with John on this one. New is the best option and replace all in one shot.

[Diesel]

CR injectors are expensive but still and all I agree with John on this one. New is the best option and replace all in one shot.

Why change all at once?

Reason I ask is when an injector fails on a big truck only the bad injector gets replaced. I wouldn't think the small engine would be any different in that aspect.

[Wild and Free]

Why change all at once?

Reason I ask is when an injector fails on a big truck only the bad injector gets replaced. I wouldn't think the small engine would be any different in that aspect.

From a point of having a ton of experience in this at the coal mines and as a heavy diesel tech for my whole career once an injector fails the rest are really close, we tried at the last two mines on several brands of engines to just replace as needed but it yielded nothing but more down time and troubleshooting time invested and the trends never changed, once they started to go bad they all went so to replace them all at once makes better sense from a production and overall cost standpoint.

 

Plus what every industry has figured out except the automotive industry is that new injectors and engine life in general can most accurately be determined by gallons of fuel burned over the components life rather than hours or miles. most engine manufacturers give engine life in expected fuel consumption now. On our new CR Cat engine we change injectors out at engine half life and on our Detroit MTU engines we change them out 3 times in the life of the engine and the unit pumps twice.

 

In most applications if under warranty the failures are generally replaced one at a time due to having low miles or hours ect. and if not under warranty most people in general or owner operators of OTR trucks or ag or automotive  are sticker shocked at doing it the right way and replacing them all and just nickel and dime things and do nothing more than what is needed to get by.

[Mopar1973Man]

Why change all at once?

Reason I ask is when an injector fails on a big truck only the bad injector gets replaced. I wouldn't think the small engine would be any different in that aspect.

 

On the CR engines usually the owner get to change one then in about 1-2 weeks later another go bad. So either do it all now and get it over with or constantly buying one injector and taking valve cover and all the other stuff off. Usually a lot of owner figure they got the bad injector and the next bad injector starts to fail and don't know it now start washing rings out on that cylinder. This why the life span of CR engine are typically very low.

[mopartechnician]

I always replace on sets espcially when the pickup will only start on ether. I have replaced single injectors under warranty and you end up replacing more shortly after. Chrysler started sending us six packs of injectors that way there is less of a chance of a come back

[Diesel]

Makes sense. Thanks for the response.

So considering wild ad free says the failure is based on gallons of fuel burned, how can you figure that by miles? Is there a window where the majority of failures are occurring?

[mopartechnician]

Depends on idle time, quality of fuel (lube) and filtration. I have seen 20-30k all the way up to 300k+

[Diesel]

So it's all over the place. I'm sure quality of fuel and filter have a lot to do with it. I don't live in a cold climate so idle time isn't much of an issue for me.

[dorkweed]

On the CR engines usually the owner get to change one then in about 1-2 weeks later another go bad. So either do it all now and get it over with or constantly buying one injector and taking valve cover and all the other stuff off. Usually a lot of owner figure they got the bad injector and the next bad injector starts to fail and don't know it now start washing rings out on that cylinder. This why the life span of CR engine are typically very low.

 

 

Depends on idle time, quality of fuel (lube) and filtration. I have seen 20-30k all the way up to 300k+

 

 

206, 064 on the OEM injectors when I got back from judging a retriever hunt test today. Still running good.