NV4500 5 speed Synchro(s)

[tonyjsan]

About a year ago I had the clutch replaced, went with a South Bend DD, I pull a 14k 5er, so this is the clutch I was advised to get. In retrospect, not sure I'd ever get another south bend, clutch is so dam temperamental, and seems to really suck when the humidity is high, lots chattering.

 

This leads me to the main question, since this clutch was installed shifting gears when moving there is noticeable "resistance", it's worst trying to get into 3rd gear, if one pushes on the stick to hard it will grind bad (did not have this problem with stock clutch, but I did notice with stock clutch, that 3rd gear would grind once in a blue moon, I just figured I had screwed up the shift). The time it takes to get into 3rd gear is enough for someone to crawl up my rear, during city driving, I can not dart into traffic or if I need a quick maneuver of speed / power from 2nd to 3rd is impossible, as can't get into 3rd gear in time.

 

When moving 4th & 5th gear are ok.

 

When at a complete stop engine running, 2nd is hard to get into, I have to hit 4th, then 2nd.

 

One more odd item sometimes when shifting while moving, if I goose the engine just as I push the stick into a given gear, at the same time I feel the "resistance" seems like the gear is "sucked" in, hope that makes since.

 

Synchros going out ? rebuild time ? New tranny ? It does have 210,000+ miles.

 

Thanks

Edited December 18, 2014 by tonyjsan

[MnTom]

That sounds a lot like a clutch that is hanging up or a pilot bearing that is beginning to sieze up. The syncros are probably worn and having a clutch issue is compounding the shifting problem. The clue is when you said "Once more odd item sometimes when shifting while moving, if I goose the engine just as I push the stick into a given gear, at the same time I feel the "resistance" seems like the gear is "sucked" in, hope that makes since."

[bjytech]

It does sound like the sychros are getting weak 3rd gear sychro is typically first to go. but also with a DD clutch there is about double the mass on the input shaft so the synchros work harder to slow the shafts down and get them to match speeds so its typical for a DD clutch to make shifting slower even with good synchros.

[rancherman]

I go along with  the  3rd syncro's  been   pounded.         If  your  disk  was    hanging,   you'd  have   difficulties  in  all  gears.

When you are  stopped,    and in  N,     how  quickly/ easily  does  it  drop into  1st?...  or   REVERSE??        I've  never  run a  4500,   is   reverse  syncro'd  like   the 5600?      If  not, THAT  is  the perfect   gear to   'see' if  your  disk is hanging.        If  it  takes  more  than   a  second or two  for the trans  to   spin down, allowing  reverse to engage...    But if it's   syncro'd ..  should be  immediate.  And  EASY.

[Mopar1973Man]

At any case the transmission is coming out to be inspected.

[tonyjsan]

Thanks for the tips, I'm tending lean towards time to have the nv4500 pulled and checked, it does have 211,000 miles on the transmission. I'm thinking even I changed to a different clutch with syncro being weak I'll save issue.

 

Finding someone where I live, who I can trust to do the work is another story. 

 

So if anyone that is on this forum, knows of a good shop to do this kinda of work in around south texas area San Antonio, Houston, Corpus Christi area?

 

I located in deep south texas, South Padre Island area I've found no locals who I can trust to do this work, I don't have access to tools to do this job.

[rancherman]

I did a quick search on Ebay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DODGE-NV4500-5SPD-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-4WD-4X4-NO-CORE-RETURN-REQUIRED/291262975379?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D2733377748e34939aa98248412e7f48d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D271637012517&rt=ncand found a couple of 'brand new' nv4500's

These are set up for 4X4, I'm not sure what you have.

1700 bucks seems like a decent deal for a brand new trans. Last NV5600 cost me almost $3300!

Even a local wrench could probably install without too much trouble for you.

I see they are already upgraded to the cast rear extension, and have the 1 3/8ths input shaft.. No core return, and a warranty.

This one is in Dallas http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-DODGE-NV4500-MANUAL-TRANSMISSION-4WD-/331155991855?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d1a6f6d2f&vxp=mtr

EDIT for 3rd time in 24 hours

ha ha, you got me in the transmission mood.. I looked up the vendor that built my nv5600. http://highgeartransmission.com/

( am in final stages of gathering parts for my build on a 98 12v) I see they are offering rebuilt nv4500's for ~ $1200 (ebay) or going straight to their 4500 page http://nv4500transmission.com/they show them for $997. The difference is ebay is 'free' shipping. (actually, shipping is built in the price)

The 5600 they built for me 5 years ago is still strong. I'm going with another 5600 from them for my project.

point is, I think 1200 is pretty close to what you'd pay for someone to rebuild yours. They run them on a trans dyno for an hour to make sure they are correct..

Edited January 30, 2015 by rancherman

[tonyjsan]

Thanks for the information, I really like what highGear has to offer, however I'm not a big fan of ebay.

 

I did find 2 other places in texas, in San antonio http://www.allstategear.com/and Dallas / Fort Worth http://www.standardtransmission.com/index.html I will look into as well.

 

When time comes I'll get from one of the three. A local wrench should be able to make the swap, but the wrench is probably ok it's the local i'm concerned with lol.

 

I need get this fixed soon, driving my truck now is not fun

 

Thanks for the input

[KATOOM]

Just coming into this thread so sorry if its been discussed already.....  Has the fluid ever been changed in this tranny?  If so, what fluid brand?  If not then it sounds like thats the next step.

 

Knowing that a DD clutch is going to be flinging a lot more mass then a single disc, I could see going into the more difficult gears being a problem.  That said, you must have an adjustable hydraulic system so have you tried to adjust it out some so the pressure plate is opening farther?

[Ilikeoldfords]

I was also wondering about what your hyrdualics look like. If you are still running the stock system, it may not be holding back that big old clutch very well!! If you do have an adjustable aftermarket set up I would try adjusting the pedal "up" a bit. That way it engages the clutch a bit more.

[tonyjsan]

I was also wondering about what your hyrdualics look like. If you are still running the stock system, it may not be holding back that big old clutch very well!! If you do have an adjustable aftermarket set up I would try adjusting the pedal "up" a bit. That way it engages the clutch a bit more.

The hydraulics where replace in Spring 2014. I use to spend summer in Missoula MT 

[tonyjsan]

I continue to have issues with clutch & maybe tran etc., I finally took it to local tran shop, they agreed something wrong with clutch, something is not disengaging. They told me perhaps the pilot bearing.

 

So I seem to back to square one as they say.

 

My question to everyone is for those that have the manual what clutch, have you used or would recommend Single Disc, Dual Disc, I know valair is rated good, South Bend I'll never use again, could I just use a stock clutch, considering the mods I have. 

 

My main goal has always been to pull a 10k or 15k fiver, the 10k is pulled mainly. 

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[KATOOM]

The stock clutch is good to about 65-85 hp over stock.  Any more than that and the odds of slippage under load is significant.

 

I dont know what opinion I can offer you in regards to a manufacture since I've heard good and bad for both Valair and SB.  But generally far more good feedback for both.  These companies have to address not only the variables of off chance mechanical failures of the components but they also have to address driving conditions and installations.  Lots of room for errors which can easily be blamed on a company who shouldnt be.  Thats not to say this is your situation either.....

 

Did SB completely blow you off or was there more to this story?

Edited May 4, 2015 by KATOOM

[tonyjsan]

 

Did SB completely blow you off or was there more to this story?

I dealt with the local tran shop that ordered and installed the clutch, they insisted there was nothing wrong with the install, I"ve not contacted SB directly as I figured the tran shop could

So I finally today took it to another local tran shop, going to go to another tran shop in next few days to see what others think.

Many vendors today will not talk direct to the customer

[KATOOM]

That couldnt be farther from accurate as South Bend will go over and beyond to help their customers.  As so will Valair.  But what you're potentially dealing with is a shop who doesnt want to absorb a cost burben which is on them.  Maybe they're claming that SB wont help.  I'd give SB a call and personally talk to Peter and give him the scoop.

[TFaoro]

Peter is great to work with... He'll talk to anyone anytime and help the best he can. He'd be the first one I call

[tonyjsan]

WOW!!! I just got off the phone with Peter, we talked at length in regards to the issues I'm having,he is willing to swap the DD clutch for a heavy duty single disc, based on the mods on my truck says a single disk would be fine.

 

He also felt some of my issues might be a result of worn trans, if I do get a re-man trans, and the DD does not work well, peter will still swap out the DD for a single

 

Now to figure out what path to take

 

I have to say wow, awesome support. Thanks for the tip on talking with Peter.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm also using a South Bend clutch and do tow a 8,000 pound RV with no issues. Just ask JAG1 about the tires breaking loose in 4th gear going up a 7% grade.

[KATOOM]

Thanks tonyjsan.....  Thats what we like to hear.  These forums are valuable tools for not only the members but.....the vendors as well.

[tonyjsan]

Finally had the clutch south bend sent me installed, there heavy duty single disk. Shifting and everything back to normal, not sure what the deal was with the dual disk but something was not right.

 

Thanks again for all the responses. Now on to the next project.