Teardown and Rebuild

[TFaoro]

I got further into it today. I took the valves out, and the exhaust all look great. The intake on the other hand look HORRIBLE. It looks like oil has be leaking past the seals pretty badly. There is a pretty good amount of carbon build up on the valves and in the head. I don't thing this could cause what you guys heard in the video, but does anyone think it's possible??

 

The cam looks good. No abnormal wear on it.

The damper is shot. The rubber is starting to work its way out, so I'll need a new one. The crank has a small groove in it so I'll be installing a sleeve while I'm at it. The clutch looks good although it only has 19k on it. There were a few hot spots, but I'm guessing that's from the couple times it spun.

 

Pulled the damper and all of the front accessories. Front main was leaking pretty bad, and the front cover had some seeping as well. 

 

Head on the bench with most of the external parts romoved.

 

Head surface.... Oil around the intakes. I looked it over really close today and didn't see any cracks though 

 

Set it up on end to get to the bottom end.

 

Pulled the cam. Doesn't look like any abnormal wear.

 

I finished pulling the front cover, then bagged it for the night.

 

I found one small shard of metal in the pan, but I have no idea where is would go. It's really thin and small. Tomorrow I'll get a picture of the intake valves and inside the head so you know what I'm talking about. Any more ideas? Could bad valve seals / guides cause that noise?

[AH64ID]

Check your intercooler and boots. It could be oil from the turbo as well.

[TFaoro]

Check your intercooler and boots. It could be oil from the turbo as well.

Turbo, intercooler pipes, and intercooler were spotless. The outlet of the turbo is spotless as well, so I know it's coming down the valves.

[Wild and Free]

The trick we use to see if valves and seats need work is to lay it on one side and fill the ports with diesel or solvent ect and see if and how long it takes for fluid to seep past the valve heads, if it seeps past fairly quick its time for vale and head work, do the same for both sides intake and exh.

See if you can borrow a magnetic base dial indicator set before going any further and measure the crank shaft end play before pulling the main bearing caps and crank out since you have a manual it is a good indicator of thrust bearing wear.

I see a rod cap missing already too.

[TFaoro]

The trick we use to see if valves and seats need work is to lay it on one side and fill the ports with diesel or solvent ect and see if and how long it takes for fluid to seep past the valve heads, if it seeps past fairly quick its time for vale and head work, do the same for both sides intake and exh.

See if you can borrow a magnetic base dial indicator set before going any further and measure the crank shaft end play before pulling the main bearing caps and crank out since you have a manual it is a good indicator of thrust bearing wear.

The head is going to get worked over either way. I'm hoping to have a quote by the end of the week for all new valves, seats, guides, seals, and having the surface decked.

 

I may just go buy a dial indicator because I'll need it to replace the syncros in the trans.I'm not sure how easy it will be to test it with the engine one its end!

[Wild and Free]

As long as you can get a pry bar under the crank gear and between block and pull up on it with a fair amount of force you will be ok. Since the weight of the crank has already got the oil squeezed out it will actually be a more accurate measurement that way rather than prying it both ways.

Why would you need a dial indicator to replace syncros?

[TFaoro]

As long as you can get a pry bar under the crank gear and between block and pull up on it with a fair amount of force you will be ok. Since the weight of the crank has already got the oil squeezed out it will actually be a more accurate measurement that way rather than prying it both ways.

Why would you need a dial indicator to replace syncros?

That's smart. Will do

I need one to set the lash back to spec. 

 

On a side note just so everyone knows the vp44 gear CAN NOT jump a tooth with the front timing cover on. I tried every way I could to get it to jump without taking it outside the cover and it is impossible. So if you need to rotate the engine while the VP is out there are no worries there.

[Wild and Free]

That's smart. Will do

I need one to set the lash back to spec. 

 

On a side note just so everyone knows the vp44 gear CAN NOT jump a tooth with the front timing cover on. I tried every way I could to get it to jump without taking it outside the cover and it is impossible. So if you need to rotate the engine while the VP is out there are no worries there.

You will need to take pics and show me that one, I am at a loss as to where a dial indicator would be used in an nv4500. I have rebuilt a fair share but its been many years ago and I just do not remember using a dial indicator, there is basically nothing to set up in them since they have roller bearings not tapered bearings.

[TFaoro]

IIRC you have to and or remove shims to get the lash correct. I'll know more when I dig into that. I'm going to get this motor figured out before I do that though. Maybe I'll take the pistons out tomorrow.... I am for sure going to plastigauge the rods and mains to see how much wear they have.

[AH64ID]

Are you young to reuse the bearings? Or just curious at the wear?

Will you mic out the OEM camlobes ? Or is a replacement on the way? (Sorry if I missed it). The 24V OEM cam is much better than the OEM 5.9 HPCR cam but Incannot speak highly enough of the improve to a decent cam makes.

[TFaoro]

Are you young to reuse the bearings? Or just curious at the wear?

Will you mic out the OEM camlobes ? Or is a replacement on the way? (Sorry if I missed it). The 24V OEM cam is much better than the OEM 5.9 HPCR cam but Incannot speak highly enough of the improve to a decent cam makes.

If the bearings are within spec I don't see a point in replacing them. If they are worn then they will be replaced.

 

I can mic the lobes, but a hamilton 188/220 will be going in no matter what.

[AH64ID]

I was just on the Hamilton site and see they dropped the 188/210 and added a 182/214.

Out of curiosity why the 188/220? Do you not tow much?

The 178/208 is a great cam for slow speed spool and towing, but I rarely go above 2500.

Bearing kits are cheap, far cheaper than I ever imagined. For the cost of one I wouldnt even think twice. They may be in spec but have plenty of miles on them.

[Mopar1973Man]

If I was going to pull a engine that far I would highly consider fresh bearings. Why not you got the pan off.

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

i went with oem cummins mains and clevite HD rod bearings

[AH64ID]

If I was going to pull a engine that far I would highly consider fresh bearings. Why not you got the pan off.

Did I mention they are cheap... OEM less than $100.

[TFaoro]

I was just on the Hamilton site and see they dropped the 188/210 and added a 182/214.

Out of curiosity why the 188/220? Do you not tow much?

The 178/208 is a great cam for slow speed spool and towing, but I rarely go above 2500.

Bearing kits are cheap, far cheaper than I ever imagined. For the cost of one I wouldnt even think twice. They may be in spec but have plenty of miles on them.

http://www.hamiltoncams.com/18caca.html They say this is the best cam for idle to 4200rpm, and I plan on unlocking the TST to run 4,000rpm. I do tow, but the quick spooling turbo and cam should make towing a breeze. Plus I have a smoking deal on the 188/200.

 

We'll see with bearings. I measured the rod bearings and they were right in spec so I'm not worried about them. I haven't messed with the mains, but it's easy to roll a set in. I am not going to pop the pistons out until I pick up my engine stand! 

It's made to hold 6,000lbs and rotates / tilts. Picked it up off of government liquidation for cheap!

[AH64ID]

Yeah it's a good cam but it doesn't say best, just that it operated from idle-4200. From what I was told the 178/208 is better idle to 2600 so it just depends on where you want to run. If you plan to use the 4000 then the 188/220 sounds perfect. You may give up a little economy and off idle performance over a smaller cam, but should still be better than stock by a lot!

Good deals are also great ways to go.

[Wild and Free]

By saying "easy to roll a set in" I am assuming you are not planning on lifting the crank out? I hope you didn't go his far and not going to reseal the font cover to block and rear adapter hsg to block and rear cam o-ring?

[TFaoro]

AH64ID - I may give hamilton a call and see what they say is best for me. I do plan on turning around 4k, but this is by no means a race truck!

Wild and Free - I am not planning on pulling the crank. The entire engine will be resealed though. The front cover is already off, the rear housing doesn't have seals IIRC, and rear cam O ring?? I'll have to look into that.

 

I decided to wait on pulling the pistons until my engine stand gets here. Nothing inside is loose though. I know that for sure.

 

Few pics from the day... 

Intake valve - looks terrible!

 

 

 

Exhaust look perfect.

 

Tore the turbo apart. I'm probably going to polish the housing.

 

Closed up and headed for the barn.

[Wild and Free]

The bore for the cam goes all the way through the block and the rear of the block has an o-ring between the block and rear adapter housing that seals this bore. A lot of people forget about this one when chasing oil leaks at the rear of the engine.