Hey all,

As the title says I got a death wobble for the first time with this truck today. We were making the first half of the trip from old house to new and my truck was loaded to the brim with our stuff. Right about 1300 lbs worth between the cab and bed. Total weight was between 9 and 10k. I was driving south on I81 just before Syracuse doing about 65mph in 5th gear. I'm assuming I hit a bump, though I can't recall actually seeing one. Anyway it sent me into a violent death wobble. I know what it feels like because my dads old 1st gen used to do it pretty regularly. My sunflower seeds went everywhere, I had stuff falling on me from the back seat where it was stacked to the ceiling lol. It wasn't fun. My wife and mother-in-law, who were following in their car, could see my front wheels wobbling back and forth. I hit the brakes and got it under control and it didn't do it again the whole 225 miles the rest of the way home. It wasn't for lack of bumps either. I81 and the PA Turnpike are not the smoothest roads in that stretch lol. I am really confused as to why this happened. I have a new stock track bar, new 4th gen tie rod/drag link upgrade, new sway bar bushings and links, new lower control arm bushing with caster maxed out, new Bluetop steering gear, new intermediate shaft, steering box brace. Only things left to chance would be ball joints and wheel bearings, but the PO is supposed to have changed them, though I don't know exactly how long ago. The truck was just inspected though and my dad and I have total faith in the guy who did. My family has done business with him for a long time and based on past experience, I'm pretty sure he would have noticed and told me if ball joints or wheel bearings were on the verge. My upper control arm bushings are original as far as I know. Could this just have been a fluke? A one in a million hit a bump just the right way kind of thing? Or is this definitely an indication of a problem? I didn't get an alignment after the tie rod install. We just did it with a tape measure, made sure before and after measurements were the same. If the toe is neutral or pointing out a little instead of in could that have caused/contributed to this? I'm also not running a steering damper because I didn't feel any need for with the new tie rods, could that also be part of the problem? Keep in mind I also have two different tires up front, same size, but different tread, maybe that contributed as well? It doesn't make sense to me because the solid tie rod should not allow this to happen, unless the wheels were wobbling together. Where should I start guys? Any ideas or thoughts? I don't want to throw parts at this. I have a bad habit of thinking I have to fix perceived issues perfectly and instantly and that gets me spending more time and money than I should. I want to take a cool headed approach to this for a change and figure out if this really is a problem before i dig in. Where should I start? Let me know if you need any more details to help figure this out. As always, thanks very much for any and all input :-) 

 

ps- I've also noticed that I think my sway bar is slightly bent and consequently pretty difficult to get installed. Always need a second pair of hands. Not sure if that could be relevant or not. 

Edited September 19, 20168 yr by leathermaneod

I am voting tires since yours are miss matched and maybe old? I dont know for sure. If you google this and check out the forums, X amount of people have all found the cure all for DW, You have done 80% of them. The only thing you changed was the caster, that you can reverse that and see what happens. That would be cheaper than the tires. I am at a loss as to what you should do,

 

Myself, I am going to see what my new tires do when they start wearing thin. If they do it again i will rethink my purchase and decide from there.

Edited September 22, 20168 yr by dripley

Thanks @dripley. I am sort of going to take care of the tires and alignment first. I can't justify new tires right now because at the moment, I have 12 tires at my disposal, all of which are about half tread give or take. I need to get some more use out of them lol. What I am going to do is put a matching set of 4 on so that they are at least the same. I'll get a fresh mount and balance, and get the toe and caster checked to make sure its all in speck. I'm betting/hoping the toe is off more than I'd like to think and I can blame it on that. Then just give it some time and see what happens. I'm really not expecting it to happen again very soon. Of course I'll also check to make sure nothing is loose. I may put a damper back on some time in the near future as well. Thats going to be about it for now barring any unforseen issues or it becoming a regular thing. 

 

BTW just want to throw out a big thank you to everyone for all the helpful input on this!!

Edited September 22, 20168 yr by leathermaneod

Good luck on your endeavor. Keep as much of your money in your pocket as you can. And may DW not visit your ride again.

Leather,  it is the nature of the beast. And like dripley said, you have fixed 80% of the common problems.  So it's hard to say what is still possibly a problem.  I noticed in your original post, you didn't say anything about new upper control arm bushings.   

 

I would try at least a good  pair of tires on the front (all 4 don't) have to match. 

I would also do a better job of checking the toe.  With the same tires on the front, inflated to the same pressure, clamp a 3 foot piece of square tubing to each wheel.  low enough so you can pass a tape under the truck to measure the ends, but high enough so you are not on the "bulge" of the tire.  (you really want to go rim to rim, but that takes a bit of fabricating...) 

 

I got these pictures from IH8MUD dot com 

 

Either will work.  Angle iron is a bit weak, and is not always straight.  On the one with a tire on, be careful not to do the ratchet strap so tight to bow the straight edge.  (this is why i like square tubing better.  I also check it with a straight edge first.)  Use math to get your angles from the measurement.  Total toe is 0.10 degrees +/- 0.10 degrees.  If your straight edge is 4' long, the difference between the rear and front measurement should be approximately 0 to .168"  or zero to 5/32".

 

HTH

 

Hag

Thanks again for all the replies guys @Haggar, sorry it's taken so long to reply, been very busy. In answer to your question, I have never replaced the upper control arm bushings, so that is on the to do list. In other news, it happened again today. No weight in the bed really, but four people in the cab. At highway speed, hit a slight bump and bam! It was weird because I could feel it starting before it actually happened. I have a family friend who is a retired lifelong mechanic and he is pretty sure putting the steering damper back on is going to fix it, so wheel see. I was planning to use a Bilstein 5100 because I have their shocks, but it got sent to the wrong place and at this point won't be able to get it till Tuesday at the earliest. So I may just use the OEM I picked up today. Any thoughts? Will the Bilstein be that much better for this? 

 

I also got to thinking and i realized I don't have as many highway mikes on without the damper as I thought I did. So maybe it is all lack of damper. 

 

We also did switch the tires yesterday. They aren't great, a set of off brand Chinese made mud tires with about 7/32's, best I can do right now. They all match and balanced up fine and don't leak. My alignment is scheduled for Tuesday and I'd like to have the damper on by then....anyone have any experience with the Bilstein 5100 damper that can tell me yes I should wait for it rather than use OEM? Btw the OEM one I have is for a newer truck with the 4th gen steering if that makes a difference. It's pretty stiff. 

Ps- I like the OEM because it's plain black already so I don't have to paint it like I will the Bilstein to keep it from rusting. I have the Bilstein 5100 shocks and they are very nice, but I really have to keep them oiled or they will rust. So unless the Bilstein is gona be a heck of a lot better, it's not really worth it anyway, only upside in that case is that it's cheaper, but I hate always having to wait days on parts lol

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by leathermaneod

There's probably little to no difference between the two, but I'm not expert on the matter.

 

As far as dampers go, I think if the rest of the steering components are good up front, then you shouldn't need the damper, it's more a nice to have. Since I installed my 4th gen steering, I haven't had a steering damper. I've done a lot of in town but also towed a 5500lb travel trailer that gave my truck a decent squat in the rear with my leveling kit up front. If anything that'll accentuate the problem but I haven't had a single issue either way.

 

Something tells me your alignment is the perp here.

Thanks for the reply! Have you done much highway driving @65+ though? That's the only time it happens for me....Alignment will be fixed after Tuesday :-)

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by leathermaneod

No I haven't. Don't get too much highway for my typical driving. When I was towing for the camping trip probably was at 60-65mph (not 100% sure since my speedos off again) but even when empty and on the highway I don't really go faster then 65 anyways lol

Ok. That's what's making me wonder. I realized after thinking about this that I haven't driven on the highway as much as I thought since I removed the damper. Idk we'll see here in a few days I guess if the alignment and damper fix it. I'd really like to have the Bilstein, just because if I don't get it and the problem isn't fixed, I'll wonder if a possibly better damper could have fixed it ya know? I'm going to call XDP tomorrow and see if there is any way they can get it to me on Monday. I'm only 2 hrs away but I don't have time to drive there on Monday lol

So this damper is made by Cofap for Chrysler. Anyone know if they are good or bad?

Well XDP can't get it to me on time for my alignment. Is there any reason to think the steering damper will change anything with the alignment? Or could I just wait and put it on after? 

It shouldn't effect anything in regards to alignment. Only thing I can think of is making sure the adjustment slider is put in the right position.

What adjustment slider are you talking about? I can't think of anything like that near the damper....

I believe that would be the clamp that holds the end of the shock to be sure you have adjusted properly so does not over or under extend for lack of a better term. Wouldn't want to rip its guts out.

Yup @dripley exactly!

 

It's just the clamp that's attached to the rod that should be able to slide back and forth to adjust for movement of different dampers.

Well this is the sheet from my alignment today. I think maybe this was prt of the problem! 

Looks good. Any reason why they didn't check caster? 

Edited September 27, 20168 yr by Buzzinhalfdozen

For some reason the machine would not read it. He tried a few times but it wouldn't work. He wasn't sure why. I did ask his opinion on maxing it out though and he totally agreed, so it should be good to go. 

Just want to update this, so far after the alignment and steering damper, not a single instance of anything like death wobble. :-)

Good to hear boss! Let us know if anything out of the ordinary pops up!