I didnt want to mix up the threads by posting unrelated information so I figured I would start a new one.  This thread is for figuring out what works and what you find your truck likes.  

 

I did some more datalogging as of late and found that a more aggressive timing curve later in the rpm band, say 2500 + rpm, seems to pull harder up top.  Previous I was running tunes that maxed timing at 26*.  I took 2 tunes copied them and ran them back to back on the same stretch of road, same conditions.   I was not using wiretap for this so I will leave those details out

 

First Tune 29* max

Quote

Race 29*
Number of Power Levels	6
RPM Limit	3700
Valet Mode
Maximum Valet Mode Power	35
Timing Parameters
Fuel Load Timing	1
Low PSI Timing Reduct	5
Timing Reduct Scaling	80
LightThrottle Timing Adv	1
Light Throttle Limit	35
Timing Equilzer
1500RPM	16
2000RPM	19
2500RPM	24
3000RPM	27
MAX	29
Boost Level Fueling - CAN Bus
0 PSI	88
1 PSI	90
2 PSI	92
3 PSI	94
4 PSI	98
5 PSI	102
6 PSI	106
7 PSI	110
8 PSI	114
9 PSI	118
10 PSI	122
11 PSI	126
12 PSI	130
13 PSI	134
14 PSI	138
15 PSI	142
16 PSI	146
18 PSI	150
20 PSI	150
22 PSI	150
24 PSI	150
26 PSI	150
28 PSI	150
30+ PSI	150

 

Second Tune 26* max

Quote

race 26*
Number of Power Levels	6
RPM Limit	3700
Valet Mode
Maximum Valet Mode Power	35
Timing Parameters
Fuel Load Timing	1
Low PSI Timing Reduct	5
Timing Reduct Scaling	80
LightThrottle Timing Adv	1
Light Throttle Limit	35
Timing Equilzer
1500RPM	16
2000RPM	19
2500RPM	22
3000RPM	25
MAX	26
Boost Level Fueling - CAN Bus
0 PSI	88
1 PSI	90
2 PSI	92
3 PSI	94
4 PSI	98
5 PSI	102
6 PSI	106
7 PSI	110
8 PSI	114
9 PSI	118
10 PSI	122
11 PSI	126
12 PSI	130
13 PSI	134
14 PSI	138
15 PSI	142
16 PSI	146
18 PSI	150
20 PSI	150
22 PSI	150
24 PSI	150
26 PSI	150
28 PSI	150
30+ PSI	150

 

 

The interesting thing is the tunes are the same except for the timing above 2500 rpm.  If you look on the graph rpms hit that 2500 rpm mark at about line 20-21, each line is ~.3 seconds so 3 lines = 1 second.    You can see where timing jumps and also where boost jumps. 

 

Now keep in mind the graphs are not exact so take them with a grain of salt, but everything appears to show that the tune with higher timing up top gives faster time to 50 mph, and a faster ramp up of boost.  The higher timing tune appeared to reach 50 mph nearly 1 second faster.

 

as always studs are a good idea, but I am fairly sure anyone can run this timing above 2500 rpm.    If people are not blowing their heads off left and right with other tuners then there is no reason why this type of timing curve will hurt with the Quadzilla. 

 

 

Food for thought, open to other thoughts.

Same here. Stock tuning is extremely Smokey and EGTs are much higher. Towing would be nuts.

Here's some towing info video with teh 7 x .012

 

I hooked up to the trailer this morning,  empty weight is somewhere in the #5500 to #6000 area.  I didn't see any difference compared to towing it with the 7 x .009's in terms of heat.  MY tow tune on the 7 x .009's smoked more than my daily tune with the 7 x .012's but again the 7 x .012's tune puts down more power. 

 

Did a %100 throttle low rpm climbing a grade to see if I could force a heat issue.    heres the log. 

Highest EGT I could get was ~1200*f

 

I did a %50 throttle take off to ~60 mph.   WAY WAY WAY more throttle than I would every use with a horse in the back.    Here's the video and the log for that.

 

Log

Video

 

Here's some testing on the Boost Defueling stuff when running these big injectors.  Backdown % goes pretty high, but EGT's and boost stay stable even when I go WOT at the end of the graph.

 

 

Edited October 6, 20177 yr by Me78569

I haven't been in the truck to log this for you yet. And to log I need to get the right tune on my phone etc. Have you tried hitting the boost limiter in 3rd and let it shift into od? You'll see what I mean.

not yet.  I forgot about that until I hit export haha.

This morning I wanted to get some logs of Drive Pressure changes based on timing changes.  I plugged my fuel pressure pigtail into my drive pressure sensor and started logging.  

 

 

Did some 0-60 WOT runs with the vanes set to normal and vanes set to 18cm^2  did some 35 mph locked pulls with vanes at 18^cm2 logging it all.  half the runs with 5* of ttiming reduction and half with 2.5* of reduction.

 

 

 

Came back started looking through the logs and remembered that I am running a debug version of the code on the ADR...which does not allow for TPS reduction to work DOH!!  

 

burned 3 gallons of fuel logging to get nothing lol.....  at least I found that I am running 1:1.4 bost to drive ratio with the turbo on it's "race tune" and 1:1.2 with the turbo in eco mode once in 4th.  DP climbs some in the upper end, but so would boost if I had some more load.   anyways 

 

Turbo tune in "race mode"

 

 

 

 

Turbo in ecomode

I wouldn't call the drive pressures out of control in my current setup.  my daily turbo tune is somewhere in the middle of the above.  closer to race than eco.  


RegardlessI am gonna make my debug mode work with tps reduction so I can get the timing reduction changes logged so maybe we can see if pulling timing in high throttle low boost situtations helps or not.  

Alright here are the logs, not much to report hahah.

 

lines labeled 5* is the run with a full 5* of timing Reduction 2.5* is the 2.5* reduction

 

you can see EGT's vs DP vs timing 

 

I might need to open the vanes more to try and prevent spooling.  

@AH64ID

Question I have been meaning to ask, but keep forgetting

 

If you were to magically set all conditions static except rpm,  how much timing increase do you need to add per 500 rpm increase to keep the combustion event at the same point in time related to tdc?

 

 

@kzimmer notice any difference in your trucks ablitly to start in the cold with pop set at 340 bar?

 

 

 

Side note, I adjusted my turbo vane position some in the 65,000 rpm to 105,000 rpm area to get rid of some mid throttle barking.     DP is down about 5 psi on the top end.  My race curve is sitting at 1.42 DP to B ratio,  EGTS are very happy and power is great.  

Edited October 30, 20177 yr by Me78569

8 hours ago, Me78569 said:

@kzimmer notice any difference in your trucks ablitly to start in the cold with pop set at 340 bar?

 

For some reason it seems to start better. My pops were pretty unbalanced before though, at anywhere from 285 to 315 bar. Thanks Wilkinson Diesel in Regina, SK. Before, I noticed some stumbling, although it always started OK. Now, it still starts great, and has less white smoke during warmup. There seems to be one quick stumble at first fire, which I think is normal, and then everything is smooth. It hasn't gotten colder than about -10°C yet, so I guess we'll see what -25° is like.

 

I am going to buy a shim kit from DAP and possibly some new nozzles if I can work up the courage to click the button lol. And then I'm thinking of pushing a little higher than 340 bar. Maybe 360. I only have seat of pants, nothing recorded. But I do know that I *see* less smoke from 0 - 8 psi or so, and I've upped my canbus starting point by 3% so far. So is it atomizing better and is acting more efficient, or am I just netting less fuel because of the higher pop? Or is it the effect on retarding timing? So many questions, so little time.

18 minutes ago, kzimmer said:

I can work up the courage to click the button lol.

Close your eyes and click it.  That's how I order truck parts these days.

@kzimmer

Mine very noticably starts right off the bat now. very surpised.

15 hours ago, kzimmer said:

 

For some reason it seems to start better. My pops were pretty unbalanced before though, at anywhere from 285 to 315 bar. Thanks Wilkinson Diesel in Regina, SK. Before, I noticed some stumbling, although it always started OK. Now, it still starts great, and has less white smoke during warmup. There seems to be one quick stumble at first fire, which I think is normal, and then everything is smooth. It hasn't gotten colder than about -10°C yet, so I guess we'll see what -25° is like.

 

I am going to buy a shim kit from DAP and possibly some new nozzles if I can work up the courage to click the button lol. And then I'm thinking of pushing a little higher than 340 bar. Maybe 360. I only have seat of pants, nothing recorded. But I do know that I *see* less smoke from 0 - 8 psi or so, and I've upped my canbus starting point by 3% so far. So is it atomizing better and is acting more efficient, or am I just netting less fuel because of the higher pop? Or is it the effect on retarding timing? So many questions, so little time.

 

This is the suspected reason why I wanted to toy with upping the pop pressure on my smarty truck. I suspect smoke control would benefit.

1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

@kzimmer

Mine very noticably starts right off the bat now. very surpised.

 

The p pump trucks cold-start better with retarded timing don't they? Starting gets worse with more advance? Could explain our situation.

I dunno if you have spotted this yet when cranking, but our ecms ask for ~17* when cranking.   

 

in theory the line delay should be highest when cranking.  so the impact of pop pressure will also be highest.

 

very interesting thought.

17 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

I dunno if you have spotted this yet when cranking, but our ecms ask for ~17* when cranking.

 

Funny you mention that. Because I'm using an android head unit, it's still wired from factory and I lose power during cranking. So i've never seen starting data.

@kzimmer  any updates to report with the 330 bar pop presure?

17 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

@kzimmer  any updates to report with the 330 bar pop presure?

 

340ish... haha. Regretfully, I haven't driven it a lot. Just on weekend errands. The wife has been driving it. The little bit of driving I have done, shows things are going very well. Smokes a little less in low PSI, just a nice haze if I beat on it. Spools quick, and seems to wake up a lot more at 2000-2500 RPM now as compared to before. Not sure I can explain that one. No negative effects whatsoever. One thing to note, is my cold starts have improved greatly. It was -25C the other morning and the truck wasn't plugged in overnight, as I was finishing my new receptacle that afternoon. It fired up like summer almost. I haven't had a diesel start that good in winter since I had my old 1st gen. The VW TDI cranked over about 3 times and the battery died, haha.

 

I may order a set of 7x.013 honed nozzles from DAP and bump it up to 360 bar. If these cheap nozzles run this much better with higher that factory pop pressures, I can't wait to see how a quality set does at 360 BAR.

 

When I'm happy with nozzles and pop pressure, I just may make it to the Dyno for some timing tuning and steady state logging in the new year.

Edited November 16, 20177 yr by kzimmer
Addition

interesting.  I really wish we knew how much duration is lost per bar.  

7x.013 VCO nozzles and shim kit are on the way, thanks to @dieselautopower