Hey guys,

 

I cant find the thread I was reading where you all were talking about the PSG being the actual 65HP limitation /w the smarty or non wire tap programmers on the vp44. I got interested and I found a lot of info out there, primarily some french guys where I used google to translate. showing clips to read the 24 series eeprom with 3M clips. They eventually caught on that you could put 5v to one of the legs on the chip and make it no longer read-only (this is common, and I suspected it). Because their forum is invite only I couldnt download their diagrams or documentation they created. I also found some Indian website that showed how to read/write to the PSG /w an arduino, including wiring diagrams and so fourth. I cant find that in my history now either, but its in there somewhere. Anyways, here's the french lads that tackle read/write to the PSG. Every time they say "code", i think they mean "encrypted". I tried to join the French board but it seems to be invite only.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tlemcen-electronic.com%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D12157

 

So bottom line is, I think we could read & write from the eeprom. The question is who is going to modify the code. I know somebody was saying it was encrypted, and that wouldnt surprise me, but it sounded like the french lads were pulling it encrypted. If we could find out what it's encrypted with, and we rented some Amazon AWS servers, run a linux shell to brute force it or rainbow table it, whatever it be. I have to guess that 1998 encryption schemes would be very crackable these days. The Geforce 1080 is no joke /w 2x the power of the 980 and half the power consumption. I saw 3M connectors to read from it without taking it off the board. It sounds like they wrote to it by enabling 5v on the correct pin/leg of the chip (I dont know which exactly b/c I couldnt get to their attachments), but soldering a new one on /w a fresh flash is something I imagine could be more convenient. I did come across pin diagrams for the chip on either their site or another. I dont know if you'd have to take the 5v away from it after the write, but by the way they talked it didnt sound like it. Hard to tell through translation, though.

 

Other interesting links:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.vp44diesel.de/de/pumpen-vp44-psg-16&prev=search

http://codecard.eu/carprog/software/by-obdii-for-opel-psg16-diesel-pump-read/repair-mileage-read-pin-reset-ecu/prod_375.html

I requested an invite code, see post #6 here http://mhhauto.com/Thread-zafira-pump-psg16-replacement-and-programming

Cheapest place I have seen carprog http://www.ecutool.com/CARPROG-FULL-with-all-Softwares-Activated-and-all-21-Adapters_8243.html#5

 

Essentially I recently became knee deep in this hobby. I have a 98.5 24v /w D&J motor built to 700hp spec /w CNC'd head on intake & exhaust, 62/68/0.80 + S475/96/1.32 twins, currently running 50hp inectors /w new Edge Juice Comp with smarty SO3 on the side. I have 120hp DDP injectors next to me that just got backfrom warranty, which Lenny looked at personally. The first time around Brian handled it. I've spent a lot of time fixing drive pressure and boost pressure leaks, I think they are 99% sorted based on the performance I'm feeling. I need to do another boost test leak. More on things: 5" down pipe, mishi rad & intercooler, banks monster intake, blah blah. Still only seeing 43lbs of boost. Without the wiretap I only saw 28 psi max on a brand new Industrial Injection VP44. After putting my old pump back on, that is wiretapped, I once again saw 43psi. This is what enlightened me to the necessity of having proper fueling. I'm so far into this VP44 platform now that I wont be switching to CP3, unfortunately. Got it all mated to a Firepunk Comp I in a ext cab LB chassis. I paid some guys to work on my truck and was so let down that I learned the hard way, the only way is to do it yourself.

 

I come from a background of computers and dirt bikes. My dad was a firmware/software/hardware engineer who came to the US from Australia. Due to him being an alcoholic I wouldnt waste my time asking for his advice, but once upon a time he was very smart knowing low level stuff like assembly (programming), layers to protocols, making PCB's, soldering them all up, programming them all up, etc. Credit card readers & bill acceptors seemed to be his bread and butter primarily. Also some assembly line stuff like productivity displays, etc. For roughly 20 yrs he worked solo as his own contractor. 

 

Perhaps this could lead somewhere? I'm considering sending back my II VP44 for a hodrod pump, seeing as my tapped reman VP44 that came on the truck is running just as good & better with the wiretap. I had previously bought the new std output VP44 from II as a method to troubleshoot a hard-start condition when (almost) eveyrthing else had been tried. Turned out to be a drive pressure leak @ the 90* hot pipe connecting the turbos -- I fixed it, and the truck starts as it should.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, if they built the VB, they're the ones to talk to. I don't know exactly how they build theirs, or IF they even build theirs (or buy them from someone else). I DO know how I build mine, but that doesn't help here. Talking to whoever built it would be your next step...

 

I just saw that you're in Great Falls. If you're ever through Spokane, I'd be happy to take it for a drive and offer my opinion. Or, we could delve deeper into it if you don't get any satisfaction from the builders.

Ocean, I've played with the programmer a ton. I play with it almost every time I drive the truck. I had it on power lvl 1 to get a lot of TV input, and it was shifting nice, but the truck was slow. I finally got that play out of my cable, so I can run lvl 6-7 how I am now again. With my small injectors I need more power down low honestly, but I can feel when low-end fueling is rich and slows the spool down up. Im running lvl 3 lowend now, I had it on lvl 2 for a long time. Its only with the lift pump pressure up to 24-25-26psi that lvl 3 on setting 7 feels do-able now. Brand new II SO VP ran exactly the same as my current. I run timing on 2 because the truck drives much smoother with a nice linear pull of the chargers. Higher timing feels like it makes a deadspot around 1600-2200rpm.

Ive driven through Spokane a couple times. I definitely would have stopped by to see you, the truck used to drive a ton worse. I'll be out of here come 1 Nov, so unfortunately I dont see myself making it over there again (ive got a lot of packing still left to do)  Thank you for the offer though, I appreciate it.

Pepsi, it sounded to me like your TC locked at 43mph. I think your right that Im likely aruond 1300rpm at light throttle when it locks in 4th. I can push the pedal but its very lathargic and the whole time until it comes up 10mph, my EGTs are through the roof. Like 1400-1550 depending on how hard I push.

5 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Ocean, I've played with the programmer a ton. I play with it almost every time I drive the truck. I had it on power lvl 1 to get a lot of TV input, and it was shifting nice, but the truck was slow. I finally got that play out of my cable, so I can run lvl 6-7 how I am now again. With my small injectors I need more power down low honestly, but I can feel when low-end fueling is rich and slows the spool down up. Im running lvl 3 lowend now, I had it on lvl 2 for a long time. Its only with the lift pump pressure up to 24-25-26psi that lvl 3 on setting 7 feels do-able now. Brand new II SO VP ran exactly the same as my current. I run timing on 2 because the truck drives much smoother with a nice linear pull of the chargers. Higher timing feels like it makes a deadspot around 1600-2200rpm.

Ive driven through Spokane a couple times. I definitely would have stopped by to see you, the truck used to drive a ton worse. I'll be out of here come 1 Nov, so unfortunately I dont see myself making it over there again (ive got a lot of packing still left to do)  Thank you for the offer though, I appreciate it.

Pepsi, it sounded to me like your TC locked at 43mph. I think your right that Im likely aruond 1300rpm at light throttle when it locks in 4th. I can push the pedal but its very lathargic and the whole time until it comes up 10mph, my EGTs are through the roof. Like 1400-1550 depending on how hard I push.

I don't much about the edge, but I think that you have to realize what I did about the engine rpm, I had to come to accept life at higher rpm. I think @Mopar1973Man would be able to delve into the edge's settings better then I could to help with tweeking.

But I think that slight TV cable adjustment would be fine to adjust shifting if you turn the programmer up some, that is what I had to do.  

As for your deadspot, there is a timing change in that 1,500-2,200 rpm rage you speak of, It exists on my smarty as well, and something that was discussed on the Smarty Tuning thread. But be careful as there is the ability to add too much timing, but with 50hp sticks I don't think it is likely, unlike my 100's where I found too much timing on the truck on certain settings.

I think your VP's fuel pressure is to high, it should be 18psi max, out of fear of blowing out the front seal on the VP44.

 

Speaking of, here is my other video about my shifting, as you watch it you will see that I have to play with the O/D Off and "2" buttons to keep the truck rpm's up. Now it is interesting to note, my truck does exactly like you said about slamming gears when I have the Smarty turned back too far. 

 

I can't run Torque Management on 0/1/2 because the truck holds the gears into the 2,400 range and loves to slam gears. TM has to be on lvl 3 or 4 for me. If I turn it Up to 5 or 6 it will shuttle shifts sooner then it does now. I'm not entirely sure that it is the cause of your issues, but i suspect that it may be both the TV settings, and the programmer fighting one another.

13 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

As for your deadspot, there is a timing change in that 1,500-2,200 rpm rage you speak of, It exists on my smarty as well, and something that was discussed on the Smarty Tuning thread. But be careful as there is the ability to add too much timing, but with 50hp sticks I don't think it is likely, unlike my 100's where I found too much timing on the truck on certain settings

 

 

 

 

this isn't an issue using the Edge.  The Edge takes in ECM timing as the "base" then adds timing on top based on some sort of map.   What I found on the edge is that when you get hard on the throttle total output timing will drop as the ecm pulls timing.  You will see ~13-14* of timing in the region you are talking about touch less if boost is low and load is high.

 

the lul he is feeling is likely the opposite of what you feel.  His truck could likely use a touch more timing in that region.  

 

Maybe I am missing somehting but the edge comp doesn't give the user the ablity to control timing at all.

Interesting, Ill take the programmer off the truck and see if it drives any different. I've done that in the past though, troubleshooting a hard start condition, and it made no difference. I wasnt running it through *all* the gears then, though.

I dont think the Edge has a lot of tune-ability; it sounds like I really need to get the Quad. Looks like the guys here have done some real impressive stuff with the custom tuning to annihilate smoke pretty well.

 

My VP pressure if its 25psi at idle, will be 22-23 whilst driving, and still 15-16 at WOT. I dont know why it drops so badly, I've done from the 4G 165 motor to the 4G 200, installed a sump, 1/2" line no restrictions, make sure tank is vented, tried a brand new VP, tried different lines, everything I can think of. I run it at this high pressure because it enables the truck not to drop down to 10-12psi at WOT, which is even worse with bigger injectors, and because it enables me to run lvl7 without the truck shuttering. Ive had my VP at 40 psi for several hours previously, and it didnt blow the seal, on this very VP, so Im gonna run my luck. Plus I have a spare brand new VP sitting here now, anyway. Because I kept my core I'll never get anywhere close to what I paid for it, so Im keeping it..

@me, 

Quote

 

the lul he is feeling is likely the opposite of what you feel.  His truck could likely use a touch more timing in that region.  

 

Im running timing on 2, stock is 1. The lul I speak of only seems exasterbated at 3,4,5.

 

Also I am running the "new" Edge JWA Comp, it came out maybe 12-18 months ago, something like that.

https://edgeproducts.com/news/vp44-competition-juice-w-attitude/

7 power levels, fueling up to 3600rpm. I chose it because the tech told me if I send in my old edge product (and to keep it) that I would get 40% off. Well turns out it was 40% off MSRP, not 40% off selling price on their site, so it wasnt the deal I thought it was going to be, but it is what it is.

Edited October 16, 20177 yr by rogerash0

2 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

I dont think the Edge has a lot of tune-ability; it sounds like I really need to get the Quad. Looks like the guys here have done some real impressive stuff with the custom tuning to annihilate smoke pretty well.

I was just wondering what you meant by 

Quote

Higher timing feels like it makes a deadspot around 1600-2200rpm

 

How are you qualifing that you are using higher timing?  

I dont have a readout of the live timing; I see you are saying its dynamic based on throttle position and so fourth. I didnt know that, but it doesnt surprise me in the least. I quantify that my timing is greater by running the edge jwa comp tuner /w timing on 3,4, and 5 as a greater timing setting than with it set to 2.

Edited October 16, 20177 yr by rogerash0

Have you double checked your fuel psi with a different gauge or reading from a different area? Seems you listed just about everything else you could change except that.

Yeah AD made me put a mechanical gauge on it to get the AD200 motor. It was a $25 gauge from the local hydraulic shop. I have tons of pics and videos of it, altho they didnt request to look at them. I thought I'd get a whole new unit sent out, but they just sent a 200 motor and said keep the 165 motor. They even had me put the 4G 200 motor on the original AD100 base that's not adjustable. Its still on there now. The fittings have larger ID's as well. Its also worth mentioning I had the original AD100 wiring harness in use when I first installed the AD165. Tried new filters, installed the brand new harness, tried the 200 motor, etc. All I can think of is the 2 prong cummins harness connector/connection isnt increasing the voltage of the pump as I stomp it, to make pressure not drop, if it even is meant to do that at all. I know they've thrown around some words like "on demand pump".

Edited October 16, 20177 yr by rogerash0

oooh  you have the edge juice with attitude competition not the Edge Comp.  that makes WAY more sense.  

 

 

Yes there is a "juice timing" setting.  I can't speak to what it does on each level as the directions are vague.  I would make the same assumption that higher levels = more timing.  

 

I also can't speak to the timing curve on the Competition vs the Comp.  I would assume they use similar maps, and I would also assume that higher juice timing = the comp's timing and the juice timing allows you to pull timing down some as the comps timing is pretty aggressive. 

 

However that is a HUGE assumption and I can't speak to it beyond a guess.

For your lulz or ent

 

Fuel pressure sensor setup

 

WOT. It was not easy taking these photos. My boost should have been higher than 30, not sure what's going on here. Its possible I was snapping pics like a mad man just point and shooting, and boost hadnt topped out at this exact moment. Fuel pressure here tells me Im WOT.

 

Fuel pressure at idle. This would be with the Airdog2 4G base, 165 4G motor, no spring mods, this is a spring and how it ran from them. Fuel tank just below 1/2 tank, no sump yet in these testing/documenting pics.

 

Ya Im pretty much tracking with what you said @Me78569 ; I think thats accurate enough for government work. The description on the unit just says level 1 is stock, level 2 is 25% juice timing, 3 is 50%, 4 is 75%, and 5 is 100% juice timing.

 

With the 50 or 75hp 8hole mystery injectors in now, the ones the truck came with when I bought it, (I think they are 50s), Im at 24-25idle dropping to 15-16 on level 7 jwa comp. Not very good. It only hits 15psi for a brief moment or two, it primarily is at 16psi at WOT.

Edited October 16, 20177 yr by rogerash0

Where was that gauge tapped into to get those readings?

Here

39 minutes ago, rogerash0 said:

For your lulz or ent

 

Fuel pressure sensor setup

 

WOT. It was not easy taking these photos. My boost should have been higher than 30, not sure what's going on here. Its possible I was snapping pics like a mad man just point and shooting, and boost hadnt topped out at this exact moment. Fuel pressure here tells me Im WOT.

 

Fuel pressure at idle. This would be with the Airdog2 4G base, 165 4G motor, no spring mods, this is a spring and how it ran from them. Fuel tank just below 1/2 tank, no sump yet in these testing/documenting pics.

 

Ya Im pretty much tracking with what you said @Me78569 ; I think thats accurate enough for government work. The description on the unit just says level 1 is stock, level 2 is 25% juice timing, 3 is 50%, 4 is 75%, and 5 is 100% juice timing.

 

With the 50 or 75hp 8hole mystery injectors in now, the ones the truck came with when I bought it, (I think they are 50s), Im at 24-25idle dropping to 15-16 on level 7 jwa comp. Not very good. It only hits 15psi for a brief moment or two, it primarily is at 16psi at WOT.

The pressure drop is an airdog trait. I went through a lot of these issues

You're running Fass now?

no the owner of pureflow ( the patent holder that airdog uses) gave me one of their commercial grade pumps because I went through so many of the airdog pumps.  

honestly I wouldn't worry about it too much, if it dies just get a replacement under warranty.

Well, its bad because Im running my VP above the pressure I should, and I dont even have real sticks in it right now. I can tell the pump is not a happy camper at 11-12 psi because it would shutter on level 7. I originally thought it was the programming, but it went away with my minimum lift pump supply being 15psi.

Even with it higher now at 24-25psi idle, who knows what happens when I put those 120hp DDPs back in. I'll be at sea level, so my pressure will likely be a bit higher again, but still....... These same injectors, never dropped below 16-17psi here in town on my original motor (53 block that cracked) with the original AD100. I have yet to put that AD100 motor back on.

Edited October 17, 20177 yr by rogerash0

Call up airdog and see what they say about your huge pressure swings.  All I can say is it got me nowhere working with them.

Got me absolutely no where. Called them a million times. They have no explanation.

yea, been there.  

 

sorry.