So I have had the first major problem with my 02 2500. Got the truck out Saturday afternoon to go to a church dinner. Get ready to leave the dinner and my truck won't start. When I key-on the ignition I don't hear the FASS kick on, then I notice the wait to start is flashing. So obviously I am assuming the worst, a dead ECM. The truck would just crank and crank and crank. Call for tow and of course it will be awhile, so I leave the truck and wait at home.

(A side note, before I left the house that day when I first got in the truck and turned the key on, the FASS was delayed in kicking on. Thought it was weird, so I turned the key off and back on again and everything seemed fine. I figured it was just a fluke.)

2 and 1/2 hours later I get the call from the tow driver. I get there and of course human nature tells to try and start the truck. Turn the key on and the FASS kicks on, and the WTS illuminates with the normal delay since it was cool outside. The truck fires right up. I get out to thank the driver for coming and try to pay him for a dry run, and then the truck dies. WTS flashing and will just crank. So had it towed home.

Sunday morning same thing, key-on, no FASS, and flashing WTS. I decided to clean the battery grounds, they were somewhat corroded. After cleaning the grounds, truck fires up, runs for about 10 seconds and dies. WTS flashing. I then cleaned all the terminals. Now when I key-on, the FASS kicks on for the brief second, the WTS illuminates and stays on indicating for the grid heaters. But by now the batteries are so weak the truck won't turn over. I tried charging and boosting each battery, but it would barley crank. 

 

So can weak or bad batteries cause this issue?

 

Intuition leads me to a bad ECM, but the truck ran a couple times, and the WTS is not delayed. I did the key trick for codes: P PCU - p1693, p1694, P ECU - showed no codes. But I will still put the scanner on it. Does this sound indicative of a bad ECM? I do NOT have a No BUS message either.

Bad IAT sensor?    Bad grid heater relays?    Bad grid heater?    Corroded grounds?

Open to input, suggestions, any help!

 

Edited March 11, 20196 yr by gipperkid

@Hawkez I'm sure the VP44 is on borrowed time. I figured milk it as long as I can.

 

I would probably need to hot wire the IP and FASS, correct?

That's just it, I don't see any other faults appearing. Could be the VP44 PSG, The APPS? The overhead console displays CCD when the WTS is flashing. But it's just weird the truck ran for a good 20 minutes after installing in fresh batteries. I just hate grasping at straws. 

 

Since ACS seems recommended, I'll put a call in to them.

You can just hot wire the pump. Blue Chip Diesel has the instructions on their site. No need to hot wire the lift pump.

 

Edited March 12, 20196 yr by dripley

@dripley Ok, I just didn't want to hurt the IP without a constant fuel pressure. But I suppose since it will just be idling it shouldn't be a problem.

,Your lift pump should be working for the test. You only disconnect the VP and hot wire it then start the engine to see if it idles. That is all it will do in the hot wire test.

https://www.bluechipdiesel.com/runningtests. Here is some info from the BC website.

1 minute ago, dripley said:

,Your lift pump should be working for the test. You only disconnect the VP and hot wire it then start the engine to see if it idles. That is all it will do in the hot wire test.

https://www.bluechipdiesel.com/runningtests. Here is some info from the BC website.

Ok, I just figured since the ECM is not sending the FASS a signal with key-on that it would not run. So once the VP is hot wired, the engine will run and FASS will be on as well?

17 minutes ago, gipperkid said:

Ok, I just figured since the ECM is not sending the FASS a signal with key-on that it would not run. So once the VP is hot wired, the engine will run and FASS will be on as well?

Well i did forget you are having pump power problems also. So hot wiring might be necessary. My apolagies. The VP will pull fuel on its own but maybe not since yours is on its way out. 

12 minutes ago, dripley said:

Well i did forget you are having pump power problems also. So hot wiring might be necessary. My apolagies. The VP will pull fuel on its own but maybe not since yours is on its way out. 

Dumb question, how do I hot wire the FASS? Do I need to unplug the FASS harness from the factory LP connection and jump the relay on the FASS harness?

There is a relay on fass harness you can unplug and jump the terminals that come frome battery to pump ( usually 30 and 87 ) the other 2 are from ECM that energize the coil in relay. You don't want to jump it right a way, because vp doesn't like full pressure on startups. Maybe wire in a toggle switch and as soon as it fires up then turn on lift pump. 

Also get a protective relay that uses diode or resistor, Fass has regular. 

5 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

There is a relay on fass harness you can unplug and jump the terminals that come frome battery to pump ( usually 30 and 87 ) the other 2 are from ECM that energize the coil in relay. You don't want to jump it right a way, because vp doesn't like full pressure on startups. Maybe wire in a toggle switch and as soon as it fires up then turn on lift pump. 

Also get a protective relay that uses diode or resistor, Fass has regular. 

 

When I jump the FASS relay should I unplug the FASS connection at the factory LP connection? Not sure if there would be a risk of back feeding voltage into the truck harness.

For safety reasons you should but it should not interfere

Didn't have time  to work on the truck last night. But I made a jumper for the FASS relay and a test plug for the VP44.

I wish I could make those. Be a handy tool for the 2nd Gen guys.

 

@Mopar1973Man @Dieselfuture @dripley I had some time last night to troubleshoot. I was also able to get a hold of a Solus Edge scanner.

 

With the current ECM still in the truck I was not able to make any communication with the ECM. The scanner would not connect to the ECM, but would connect to the PCM.

 

I then hot wired the VP and FASS. The engine would start and idle. The engine idled very low and was a bit rough to get started that way. Still had the flashing WTS while running this way. Reconnected the FASS and VP back the harness and no start.

 

I had the ECM from the 01, so I tried it. I left my ECM bolted the the block and just connected the plug to the 01 ECM. A side note, I still had yellow VOID stickers on both the VP and ECM connectors, not sure if that was factory from Cummins for tamper evidence. Also while doing this I disconnected the battery grounds.

 

After connecting the donor ECM and reconnecting the batteries the truck fired right up. The scanner would connect and I could read all the engine data, see the grid heaters kick on and off, engine rpm, etc. The check gauges illuminated and I was not showing oil pressure on the gauge. So I am stumped on that. Would there be something different in an 01 ECM? But nonetheless I think it's best to say my ECM needs rebuilt?

 

I'm not sure what else I could troubleshoot.

 

Sounds like the ECM is shot. The reason you are not seeing oil pressure is that the 02's have only an oil pressure switch with one wire to the switch. The 02's only read when you have pressure, 6 lbs I believe, and then the ECM takes over the gauge using RPM and ECT info for gauge reading. The 01's have a oil pressure sensor that reads actual pressure. This is a 3 wire sensor and not just a switch. So the 01 ECM is not getting the proper info to display oil pressure.

5 minutes ago, dripley said:

Sounds like the ECM is shot. The reason you are not seeing oil pressure is that the 02's have only an oil pressure switch with one wire to the switch. The 02's only read when you have pressure, 6 lbs I believe, and then the ECM takes over the gauge using RPM and ECT info for gauge reading. The 01's have a oil pressure sensor that reads actual pressure. This is a 3 wire sensor and not just a switch. So the 01 ECM is not getting the proper info to display oil pressure.

Well that definitely makes since then. I knew had to be a different signal/wiring or something. Well I would at least be able to get my truck home with that ECM.

I have been researching ECM rebuilders, and prices are all over the place. Funny thing is I manage a salvage yard and the majority of the ECM rebuilders we sell computers to on a daily basis.

 

www.Autoecu.com is ASI Auto - $298 for repair, $1150 for reman

 

www.store.allcomputerresources.com is All Computer Resources - $849 reman

 

www.fs1inc.com is Flagship One - $899.99 reman (I really don't like this company even when we sell to them)

 

www.autocomputerexchange.com is Auto Computer Exchange (ACE) - $848.50 reman

www.automodulesource.com - Auto Module Source (AMS) - $149 repair

(These are both the same company out of Davie, FL)

 

www.siaelec.com is SIA Electronics - $128.25 for repair

 

I know all the computers they sell are ones they buy from salvage yards. I suppose it's just who has the least amount of warranty claims. I have dealt with all of the above, but everyone's prices vary. I hear a lot of talk about ACS in Florida.

22 minutes ago, gipperkid said:

I hear a lot of talk about ACS in Florida.

I would check with them, they have deals once in awhile where for 300 they will fix and program, plus shipping. They have a whole ecm for 700 or repair for 250 right now.

Need to fill out the form and pay in advance, plus make sure to include all codes, problems associated with it.

 https://autocomputerspecialist.com/shop-now?olsPage=products

38 minutes ago, gipperkid said:

Well that definitely makes since then. I knew had to be a different signal/wiring or something. Well I would at least be able to get my truck home with that ECM.

I have been researching ECM rebuilders, and prices are all over the place. Funny thing is I manage a salvage yard and the majority of the ECM rebuilders we sell computers to on a daily basis.

 

www.Autoecu.com is ASI Auto - $298 for repair, $1150 for reman

 

www.store.allcomputerresources.com is All Computer Resources - $849 reman

 

www.fs1inc.com is Flagship One - $899.99 reman (I really don't like this company even when we sell to them)

 

www.autocomputerexchange.com is Auto Computer Exchange (ACE) - $848.50 reman

www.automodulesource.com - Auto Module Source (AMS) - $149 repair

(These are both the same company out of Davie, FL)

 

www.siaelec.com is SIA Electronics - $128.25 for repair

 

I know all the computers they sell are ones they buy from salvage yards. I suppose it's just who has the least amount of warranty claims. I have dealt with all of the above, but everyone's prices vary. I hear a lot of talk about ACS in Florida.

Is this the ASI you are speaking of? I keep this as a reminder of the debacle I went thru with them back in 09 or 10. The first one tripped 606 code and the truck would not run. They kept my core charge and it took 6 additional weeks for them to send me a replacement. It only lasted a year before it left me stranded on the side of the road. Cruise never worked on it either.

Edited March 20, 20196 yr by dripley

Ok, talked to both ACS (Auto Computer Specialist) and AMS (Auto Module Source), both in Florida. Both places basically said the same thing, fill out the repair form, explain the problem, list codes, and 1-3 day turnaround. However Auto Computer Specialist's cost is $249.99 and Auto Module Source is $149.00. Both give a 1-year warranty on the repair. Any reason there should be a price difference? Input on either company?

 

Also I can pick up a used ECM for about $500. I'm leery because once I send mine off that is it; if it get's lost or they claim it can't be repaired.

7 hours ago, dripley said:

Is this the ASI you are speaking of? I keep this as a reminder of the debacle I went thru with them back in 09 or 10. The first one tripped 606 code and the truck would not run. They kept my core charge and it took 6 additional weeks for them to send me a replacement. It only lasted a year before it left me stranded on the side of the road. Cruise never worked on it either.

Forgot to attach the photo.

14 hours ago, dripley said:

Forgot to attach the photo.

21 hours ago, dripley said:

Is this the ASI you are speaking of? I keep this as a reminder of the debacle I went thru with them back in 09 or 10. The first one tripped 606 code and the truck would not run. They kept my core charge and it took 6 additional weeks for them to send me a replacement. It only lasted a year before it left me stranded on the side of the road. Cruise never worked on it either.

 

Yes that would be the same ASI. I will steer clear of them.