As best I can describe it, if anyone has been driving a car when the catalytic converter melts down or plugs up the engine gets generally sluggish and struggles under its own weight. Throttle works but no not really because its just bogging it further in a sense.

 

Or how about those of us with Edge tuners who take off driving before it loads and you get that sudden burst of power when it does start working. That sudden contrast between no tune and tune. However in my case only 200 yards prior i was running the tune and it just suddenly fell on its face then as i said its a sudden burst of power when it clears up.

 

I hope that description makes sense because its what my entire issue is but i'll explain it specifically here and just refer to it as "symptoms" to save some typing

 

I have to pass by a particular factory very frequently. Its the main road through town and my route to work or stores unless i take the back way or long way. As i approach this segment of road that these "symptoms" occur for, (haven't measured it exactly but maybe a few hundred yards or so), my edge tuner is typically at level 4 with the boost compensation backed off or level 5 if im in a mood, regardless of load you can feel that level. Suddenly i get those "symptoms". Throttle works. No lights or anything out of the ordinary. I make it that short distance up the road and depending on where my foot is even in level 4 with the boost comp backed off it'll usually dump a little smoke and then back to normal as if nothing happened.

 

I bought this truck in 2016 when i lived in california. maintained it in arizona. still have it in florida. i've literally crossed the country and can solemnly swear this is the only place this has ever happened to the truck. the factory iteslf isnt necessarily close to the road. the nearest power transfer station is about 3/4 of a mile away. no cell towers that im aware of. there is the helicopter field but my house is much closer to the field than this segment of road is. the only other businesses in proximity is a handful of restaurants and stores and i think a parts house and a oil change place and a carwash.

 

I did the W-T mod years ago and even changed the diode if im not mistaken. I've taken care to make sure my batteries are all kept in good shape. APPS is weeks old. There was even a year period of time when the truck was down and it was acting up then too. Happens on both sides of the road but not every single time just 50/50 probably.

 

I thought APPS but its done it with at least 3 different sensors from 3 different companies (OE, Pensacola Fuel Injection, Oreillys Standard ignition currently).

 

Im not exactly expecting results so much as im sharing in hopes someone has some sort of clue because i absolutely do not have any idea what would cause something like this outside of some sort of interference violations i mean this is just weird to me. Im not saying im jumping for a lawyer at all its just one of the weirdest things ive encountered and ive seen some pretty wild complaints having been in dodge dealerships for so long

Have you tried driving up and down that area of road, with the Edge comp box disconnected, to see what happens.  If it is some type of electronic interference emanating in that area you may have to shield and bond the Edge comp box, ECM, and PCM.  @W-Twould be able to give a more informative answer on this problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I haven’t gone too far into it so much as I’ve been paying close attention and trying to get more aware with what could be going on and it’s just kinda left me at a dead end with no real clue where to turn.

 

I’ll pop the hood and make sure all my important connections are as good as they can be. And then I’ll disconnect the edge and do some testing. To be fair there’s a couple poor or not ideal aspects of the edge harness that have had me looking into buying a new harness or a quadzilla.. but haven’t had the budget or time to really pursue it any further than remind myself of the price. But even so, I’d expect issues more frequently if it’s a harness issue.

 

Then again it could be some sort of weird interference that’s just exactly right to affect whatever oversight I’ve made and it’s some crazy coincidence.

 

edit: I’m by no means an electrical or wiring professional but I try to maintain a pretty high standard for what i use or how I connect them. All my battery terminals are the “military” ones that Napa sells. 3/8” bolt for your connections and you’ll never have any issues with them I love them. Batteries are Walmart deep cycle and i was hesitant but it’s all I could afford at the time. They seem to do great though don’t have any complaints about them. I solder whenever I can and when I can’t I’m using quality connectors and the weatherproof heat shrink always. I keep my wires tidy and protected the best I can. Clean grounds when I’m there. Try anyways I’m not perfect 

 

 

It’s just speculation though really. I have no firm ground to stand on for anything other than how it’s behaving when it does occur. 

W-T was telling me that even the muffler alone with exhaust going thru it will release interference. I think he went so far as to say some radio ham operators are grounding the muffler. So I wonder about the turbo, that things spinning faster than Fox news.

Now that you mention it I’ve seen quite a few additional grounds in newer vehicles. I used to think they were just putting them in visible or convenient places but now you have me wondering if they’re targeting specific components 

6 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Now that you mention it I’ve seen quite a few additional grounds in newer vehicles. I used to think they were just putting them in visible or convenient places but now you have me wondering if they’re targeting specific components 

W-T says that lift pumps are one of biggest offenders of interference.

 

@2000Ram2500 I've carefully read the information in this post and it is interesting.

 

This short stretch of road, where you experience this phenomena, how much time is elapsing from the point where you notice the error and where it curtails? 

 

Is it always at the same "speed" or, does the error occur at any given speed you happen to be at?

 

Is this the ONLY place you've experienced this error?

 

I see that it occurs on either side of the road so I'm assuming you travel this road going to and from your residence on a fairly consistent basis? In this aspect, I must concur with  @IBMobile and encourage you to disengage the EdgeComp to see if this error terminates in the same driving scenario you've indicated.

 

Sorry to become a task-master however; your observations are key points in developing a theoretical analysis.

 

Respectfully,

W-T

@W-T I’ve made some changes to my assumptions over the last couple years.

 

At first I thought it was the torque converter glitching I think I was at speed approximately 50.

 

But quickly I changed to thinking it was a warmup issue because at the time I was heading out passing it but coming back another way due to the stops I had to make on those days.

 

Eventually after living here long enough the first time I got the full dose of the error and I came to pass that spot with a well warmed up truck. I was trying to accelerate to keep up with traffic. Truck was into 2nd by this point and I was pushing the throttle but no go. It was maintaining speed and the throttle could be let off but it wouldn’t “go”. I am no stranger to dead pedal my dad had an 02 with a manual trans and we’d go so far as to key off while rolling down the road to reset the throttle. This wasn’t dead pedal I realized. And suddenly the truck whipped back to life and I unintentionally smoked out the people behind me.

 

Out of all 75k miles I’ve put on it I’m about 99% sure that I’ve never experienced this anywhere else.

 

edit: any speed I’ve traveled between 0 and 55. There’s 2 lights here and it’s common to catch both red or while they’re changing and be sluggish to accelerate out of there but be fine at the previous light and the next light and all the other lights in town. 

 

Ill make it a point to mess with disconnecting the edge and maybe doing a couple passes sometime this week. It’s not a huge issue to me just a really weird one. I wasn’t even gonna write a thread but it’s persisted since 2020. Got me curious as to why

It is a curious anomaly in today's automotive world where interference from some unrelated instrument causes issues with an onboard electronic component. I did see your coordinates along with the distance traveled to be very minimal and I'm only guessing...the exact location may be a pathway of unknown RF radiation. I experienced an oddity near Boeing Field in South Seattle where my alarm system would falsely arm itself and trigger the alarm when I activated the lock from my key-fob. With all the large and small micro-wave dishes only 100 yards away pointing directly at the parking lot where my vehicle sat, I experimented and moved my vehicle 60 yards. The next morning, I noted no alarm error as I manipulated the key-fob. The hotel is the one I always stayed at on company business every other month so, I had time to make these observations over a period of time.

 

I realize looking for an electronic Gremlin like this is extremely troublesome. If indeed, you are traveling through a "RF hot spot" momentarily, it is most likely not the fault of the RF generators. To verify this potential field of RF requires some sophisticated electronic test instruments such as a Panoramic Spectrum Analyzer. The monetary value exceeds 25 thousand dollars and most DIY automotive guys don't do this. If you had a friend working in Cellular or commercial Trunk-radio systems. they would have access to such devices. Driving to the area where you have experienced this error and having this device would reveal if an RF field of radiation is permeating the area of question. Time involved in this would not exceed ten minuets. (finding a guy to go chase rabbits like this is the tuff part)

 

If...this is so, then the job begins to locate the sympathetic multi-lead connections that are transporting the offending RF signal into the automotive system. Usually, it's just DC lines that were not properly "by-passed" or "filtered" at the point of entry to the PC board. Our CTD's like all the manufacturers, do not "Research and Develop" military combat grade electronic readiness into civilian vehicles.

 

Don't be concerned, the fix is typically a .1 uF dip capacitor from a DC power lead tied to ground with very short leads. Cost wise...about 35 cents but, you need to know what lead and where. Yeah...I know...we be having fun now and yes, it will take a little time but, it is not impossible. 

 

I would be interested to know what your findings are after you divorce the EdgeComp from the system and make a few passes up and down that road.  

 

W-T         

I can understand what @W-T is saying about RF energies. Makes a lot of sense. 

 

I still would say remove the tuner first though and verify that the RF energy isn't attacking something like the Edge Comp which could be creating the issue hence run a week with it completely removed. See if the week returns to normal. Being the Edge Comp is riding on the CANBus data and handles it directly. Since the route of the wiring from the CANBus connector on the block to the inside cab makes the bus exposed to RF radiation being none of that is shielded to grounded to the block to keep the signal clean. So by adding a tuner your exposing the Bus to more RF energies in a RF energy rich area like W-T example. The only shielded CANBus data is between the ECM to VP44 which is actually covered in shield jacket.  As you can see Orange/Brown wire noted in the wiring which has no pin at the injection pump being its deadheaded at the end of the VP44 plug.

 

I’m definitely going to pursue the edge as a suspect because I’ve had issues with it in the past and although I may have the wires connected securely like you’ve mentioned it’s more exposed right off the bat. Not to mention the number of issues people have with the edge in general at least based on how many posts and threads I’ve seen related to it.

 

last I remember and it’s been a little while but I’m pretty sure I saw that you have to actually disconnect the edge from everywhere you can’t just unplug it from the obd or anything simple. 

I'm know nothing about RF absolutly zero

 

BUT  I go to a regeneration site in Walsall, West Midlands basically the company I go to repair stuff for is contracted to make a huge area that was once a Dunlop belt factory clean to be rebuilt on, there is also a very old tip at the back of this site, anyway I digress as on my way to the site there is a 100 yard stretch of a road that really seriously bugs out the radio on my truck to the point of a deafening buzz that is much louder than the volume of the station I am listening to was set at, yes the station is on AM so interference is the norn but even electricity pylons don't make that sound, I'm going there on Tuesday so will note what the buildings are but IIRC I'm sure it's an Engineering Company so might be big lathes, mills induction stuff  No where else I drive makes a noise like it, it's like a very low frequency drone/buzz and loud

Hey Neal, the aspects of RF follow strict engineering guidelines and a little black magic in practice. The commercial Broadcast frequency allotment for AM (amplitude modulation) falls in the spectrum between 540 KHz and 1.6 Mhz and that carries over into your geographical corner of the world. There are only 3 ITU (International Telecommunications Union) regions world wide. You are in ITU region 1 along with all of Europe including the middle East, the US, Canada and South America are designated in ITU region 2 and all of Asia to the Philippines including Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands and Hawaii are designated ITU region 3.

 

The ITU is worldwide with over 280 countries (North Korea not included) and they all agree to the frequency spectrum divisional standards. This assists manufacturers producing radios, televisions, cell phones...ect. to be on the same page from a frequency or channelized standpoint for worldwide distribution,

 

The AM broadcast band is subject to band conditions on a daily basis along with solar conditions that vary over an 11 year period of time. The low frequencies being used for AM Broadcast are located on the bottom edge of the (old terminology) Short Wave band...and serves its purpose quite well. In regard to our "receivers" in these CTD platforms none of them are considered reference receivers. None of the worldwide Automobile manufacturers incorporate bullet-prof radio receivers into their products. 

 

The tremendous noise or interference you're encountering in that specific area, that has an audio envelope exceeding that of the desired (legitimate) station's signal appears to be fundamental overload of your receiver. Simply, the RF radiation in that particular location is most likely a spur or birdie from the generating device or it's a direct fundamental RF field emanating illegally from the generating source. If it is NOT a legitimate licensed Broadcast facility and this interference exceeds a distance of 300 meters from the generating source with a force greater than X micro-volts per meter (RF amplitude measurement) then you have found a law-breaker. The commercial Broadcast stations in that geographical area would be very displeased to have their signal being jammed by an extraneous RF signal source. All electronic devices shall not generate harmful interference to commercial, law enforcement, aviation, military or home electronic entertainment devices. All it takes is one person who wishes to receive a legitimate broadcast signal, make a complaint and show the actual interfering signal compromising the quality of the desired signal. If there is a device operating on the premises of this industrial location that is producing this "hash" on the commercial Broadcast band and you bring this to their attention...their engineering staff or management should take this seriously.  Ignorance of the law in regard to RF radiation exceeding predetermined levels of acceptance can be met with fines exceeding $10,000.00 each day of non-compliance.

 

Regarding your receiver, they are standard dual conversion Superhetrodyne in design. Its a reliable and stable form of demodulating a RF envelope and extracting the audio information from the fundamental carrier frequency. Many are quite good, some are just marginal with reasonable sensitivity however; none of them can perform properly in a strong RF field of radiation. Reference receivers used in specialized facilities or military installations adopt Rohde & Schwarz ($40,000.00) Rockwell Collins ($30,000.00)

and others in the tens of thousands of $ make excellent receiver/demodulators and well beyond our automotive needs. Non the less, you've found a source of undesirable RF with your radio receiver and it came with the truck...no additional investment required. Your suspicion of large inductive electromechanical  single or three  phase motors are suspect but, they should operate with broadband interference levels not exceeding 10 to 30 meters in distance.

 

Neal, you probably wished you hadn't asked...and I haven't even began to go off the rails yet but, it's Sunday evening and I should go find a cold pint...let me know if you decide to go look around that facility? Take a little transistor pocket radio with you...I'd bet you can walk right up to the generating source.

 

Oh...here is a photo of some radios....I assault the planet with these.

 

 

           

Cheers,

W-T

 

 

 

 

It’s been a while. Been carefully observing how the truck is behaving and all that. My friend borrowed it many times. Towed a skid steer. Enough driving to continue on with the diagnosis. I’ve been taking note is what gears, lockup yes or no, speed, whether I was stopped at the red light or not and how long I sat there if I did, and so on. Through all of this I’ve left the edge connected. Now just so we’re all on the same page this truck sat for a year. I forgot how it drove and behaved. I needed to remind myself what was normal and what wasn’t. Now I’m ready to go a little further.

 

Like I said I’ve been paying attention. And so far I haven’t been able to pinpoint any consistency outside of the fact that it would actually not happen on weekends and only during the week. Well just yesterday I was doing an evening drive across town and I could feel the truck slow down in that spot but this time I actually caught the boost psi flickering between 0 and 3 at a throttle position where I know I should have been seeing 3-5 psi and no flickering back and forth. It wasn’t even displaying 1 or 2 just back and forth 0 and 3. But you guessed it as soon as I got away from that area the readout started displaying normally. Finally! Something I can go off of. Now I feel better about pulling the edge out and inspecting the harness for problems. 

 

w-t I knew you’d known your stuff but good lord man.. the sad part is I actually understand the majority of that without google lol. Good stuff man

Yeah...I do have a tendency to get carried away in a verbal dissertation however; I prefer more information than skimpy hit-and-miss on subject matter. 

 

Now that you've had time to make additional careful observations and seeing the subtle telemetry faux pas certainly appears to be a condition of outside source(s) permeating your electronics. The test and headache of divorcing the Edge instrument would narrow the search for "what" is being effected. 

 

 

    This is just a simple example of "shunting" or by-passing the +12 DC supply line that is fed via the relay to the lift pump. It's a .1 Mfd Orange dip capacitor with short leads connected to ground. This was the last step to remove the residual "DC noise" emanating from the armature of the aftermarket lift pump. The pump is frame mounted near the rear of the vehicle and the +12 volt DC line is approximately 9 feet long. I found the B+ line to have a trace amount of harmful wideband RF noise and by "shunting" that line at the relay socket directly to ground eliminated all of the hash 100%.

 

The cost of such capacitors is just pennies and you may very well have some in a junk box somewhere? I selected the .1 Mfd because I knew I was looking for lower frequency noise...in your case, I would choose .01 Mfd as a starting point. In an experiment I would shunt your +12 volt feed to ground directly at the EdgeComp box. This would alleviate any stray RF entering the device on the 12 volt rail. This is all just experimental if, you find the error to be eliminated when you divorce the EdgeComp and verify the instability with the EdgeComp being operational.

 

This procedure is just step 1 and by-passing the DC at a suspected device is always step 1 because dirty DC is distributed through the entire circuit board of the suspect device. How EdgeComp produces their device is unknown to me...if anyone has a full service schematic of their device(s) I'd like to see it. Most of these types of devices are not fully documented for the protection of the design. They don't like people looking at their products in this fashion. I like to view full engineered schematics to review the basics and not the secret design parameters. It's the small basics these companies overlook in design layout that cause these electronic gremlins to be such a bother.

 

 

My information to you revolves around "Rf interference" and my examples are only "on board" interference devices however; this plays hand in hand with outside source extraneous RF fields too. I realize you have several cables/lines exiting the EdgeComp box to various points of connection and for a starting point I always suggest to start at the basic point of +12 volt supply line....because it feeds everything.

 

Let me know as you proceed...there are many hints and kinks to share in this subject.

 

Cheers,

W-T

 

 

 

 

     

I never would have thought to translate radio electronics into vehicle but it’s still just electronics at its basic sense so it’s not that different. I play guitar and wanted to learn how to build a pedal for my electric so I bought some bulk packs of resistors and capacitors and diodes etc etc. and learned a bit. De-soldered a bunch of dead electronics I had laying around and a couple pieces of scrap from work. I happen to have about 1000 capacitors but lack a 0.01 my smallest is 0.1. The point being I’m at least slightly familiar with the concept of modifying a signal with capacitors to ground and opposing diodes in parallel..

 

I’ll dig into it some more and see what I don’t happen to find. So far I’ve managed to distinguish two separate issues. This one and then what I’ll outline below. 

 

it shouldn’t go without mention that I did the w-t mod I’m sure I said that if it wasn’t obvious in the title. And several years ago I changed out the alternator diode with one that mopar1973man was selling for the torque converter issue. I threw that BD ground isolation in the trash immediately.

 

Well I’m getting torque converter glitches again and not just in that area of town I’m having the other issue this is definitely two independent problems. But the lock/unlock is nothing like they were in the past. It’ll do it at 35mph, sometimes. And at 35 it normally does float in and around lockup but only sometimes will it jump in and out. And then again in overdrive about 52 to 55 it’ll do the same thing, sometimes. Give it some light throttle to maintain speed, not accelerating, and that’s when it’ll act up, again it’s only sometimes but more often when the trucks warmer than cooler but it does do both. Its non-rhythmically and slower whereas years prior it was very fast and had a bit more predictability to it. Had me curious if maybe I’m having a diode issue again. I have a better multimeter now than I did then but still not a fluke.

 

this is a lot of food for thought I’ll say. I definitely have my work cut out for me now. Lots to inspect. 

20 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

I threw that BD ground isolation in the trash immediately.

That was a good decision, BD has been providing those for years and I'd like to chat with the individual who suggested that to begin with. It is a poorly thought out application.

 

20 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

I have a better multimeter now than I did then but still not a fluke.

It need not be a Fluke however; there are several manufacturers who produce very acceptable DVM's

The difficulty in looking at a complex or dirty wave form with a DVM comes down to sophistication in design. Preferably, a shop oscilloscope will allow flawless AC coupling on a DC line and provide peak-to-peak amplitude measurements with precision in regard to residual ripple peak values. This level of "noise" or "ripple" should normally be very low due to the immense storage capacity of the two parallel batteries connected directly to the output stud on the alternator. The capacitance of the two batteries is huge and normally provides excellent filtering (or smoothing) of the rectified DC present at the output of the alternator. Using an acceptable DVM will allow you to see the presence of AC ripple on the DC rail but, the actual peak amplitude for measurement is usually questionable. Having a DVM is better than NOT having one for basic work.

 

May I suggest what Mike M1973M had uncovered many years back.... disconnect the B+ line from the alternator stud and go for a test drive. If you find the "lock-unlock" syndrome goes away, this identifies excessive AC ripple emanating from the alternator that can not be corrected with the lumped capacitance of the storage batteries. In this scenario one of the diodes within the alternator is "open" and this produces very ugly unruly AC ripple. Yes, it's still DC but, it has hair all over it! Please note, the actual alternator's frame is at ground and the integrity of that ground is dependent on how clean the mounting bolts and structure are in respect to current flow being generated.

 

I did sense your aptitude in a technical aspect of electronics...try your .1 Mfd on the EdgeComp DC line-in, keep the leads very short...you can't hurt or damage your Edge device by applying a capacitive shunt to ground...it acts as a broadband RF filter. This might alleviate the spooky issue when you travel through the "RF hot spot"

 

I know you can't drive for miles without having the alternator replenishing the storage batteries but, day time drive, no headlights, no music and NO grid heaters...take the time to see if divorcing the alternator from the system eliminates the "lock-unlock" syndrome.

 

Sorry...task master issuing orders...let me know what you observe.

 

W-T   

 

 

     

in an interesting turn of events I just had a customer saying to avoid the very place I bought my injectors from saying he had a bad set of 1st gen injectors. At a certain point I did suspect that one or multiple might not be popping 100%.. I mean they were $189 for all 6 with no cores.. I knew what I was getting into… his knowledge base is supposedly based on him buying and selling and maintaining dozens and dozens of ram trucks all I have is his word I don’t personally know the guy but he may be on to something

 

i did just roll over 200k and as far as I know this is the original vp44.. I know I’ve never changed it.

 

i won’t have a chance to actually do any real work on this until New Years weekend with other things going on between now and then.. I’ll report back with what I discover

On 12/15/2022 at 3:20 PM, W-T said:

I know you can't drive for miles without having the alternator replenishing the storage batteries but, day time drive, no headlights, no music and NO grid heaters...take the time to see if divorcing the alternator from the system eliminates the "lock-unlock" syndrome.

Simple way it just pull the field lead from the back of the alternator. This will virtually be unhooked. No need to remove the battery charge lead. When I was fighting the issues I didn't get the lock and unlock being I'm a manual but I got a wild cruise control where it would be set at 65 MPH and the ramp up to nearly 75 MPH and the drop to about 55 MPH when it started I just pulled over and disconnect the field lead and the issues stopped till I was able to get home and test things out. Since doing the W-T ground wire mod the entire issues has been gone for years now. 

These trucks have a flaw in the grounding of the ECM and PCM. The PCM should have been grounded to the engine block not the passenger battery.

The ECM ground wire, not just the mounting flange BTW, the ECM electronics are not grounded through the mounting flanges, should also be grounded to the engine block in the same place as the PCM preferably all under one bolt. All of the alternator current should go through large conductors (including ground conductors) directly to the batteries. The original design has large ground currents through the crossover harness that runs across the front of the engine.

This results in a difference of potential between the ECM ground and its related sensors versus the ground of the PCM. Any signal wires shared between ECM and PCM will have a different point of reference. So the TPS signal output from the ECM will be input (read) by the PCM with the small voltage difference in grounds showing up as an error value. The PCM is basically a multi-channel Analog to digital converter that converts sensor values to numbers that are used to index look up tables. The TCC control output is "looked up" by indexing a two dimensional table with a row number being the TPS value IE load, and a column number being vehicle speed. The tuple where those two parameters intersect will contain either 1 = LOCK or 0  = UN-Lock.  The TPS signal is corrupted by constantly changing ground current caused by the alternator ripple and the high pulsating current of the injection solenoid in the VP. Other noise sources such as strong RF signals also cause noisy sensor readings and in extreme cases data bus corruption, CAN, CCD, SCI, etc...  The batteries act as large capacitors and help smooth out the signals so the connections need to be clean and secure.  The noisy TPS value causes lookups to jump around between nearby tuples. At some speeds two  nearby lookup results of lock and unlock get selected alternately. Software can average readings and low pass filter them - smoothing. Advanced filters such as IRR are sometimes applied but require considerable computing resources. The BD noise isolator is an analog version of a low pass filter using a simple RC network that smoothes the TPS signal at the PCM connector. I made my own similar filter for about $2 years ago and used it for a long time before doing the W-T mod. If the filter is not low pass enough the TCC can still cycle. Mine was a little on the excessive side and caused a slightly noticable lag of converter un-lock when letting of the throttle. 

 

What did you say about the fuel pump lead becoming an antenna?  I’m about to do some electrical work today.

 

Late last week I noticed my fuel pressure gauge was at zero but it’s been a nightmare to keep it working reliably so I didn’t think anything of it until I noticed yesterday when I wanted to drive the truck to work that I didn’t actually hear the fuel pump cycle on, and and a bump of the key did not run the pump for 20 seconds only clicked the relay a couple times. So I checked underneath made sure my pump was still connected and then popped the hood and looked at my relay and saw a slightly melted wire and the relay connector was falling apart and a pin wasn’t even in its slot anymore.

 

what’s even more of a mystery is it showed absolutely no signs of not having a lift pump. When the previous one failed it barely ran. I was running the truck like normal as if everything was fine. Do these pumps siphon? Would a larger fuel line allow it to siphon enough to not die or run terribly? I’m hopefully about to find out more 

 

edit for clarification: I have another car so I wasn’t driving the truck all week with no pump just one trip across town